TaliOrlando
New Member
I was asked this weird question by a girl name Mery Ann at work. If Satan, saw his evil ways and decided he wanted to change and asked God for forgiveness. Would God forgive him?
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If Satan asked God to forgive him, would he?
- Thread starter TaliOrlando
- Start date
It ain't gona happen, but why not? Of course the question I'd ask her first before answering is, "Why do you want to know?"
p.s. You didn't reveal much but you might want to be careful about revealing other people's personal information on the internet. Just a word the wise my friend.
p.s. You didn't reveal much but you might want to be careful about revealing other people's personal information on the internet. Just a word the wise my friend.
TaliOrlando
New Member
Chemnitz said:
Yeah.. my bad.. She was basicly trying to figure out if God forgave Satan would it change the book of revelation and how would it all turn out.
tragic_pizza
New Member
Hmmmmm... I'm a little vague on forgiveness for beings in the spirit realm. I would think, though, that the answer would be "yes."
Of course, then we'd just have to adjust our eschatology in re Revelation...
Of course, then we'd just have to adjust our eschatology in re Revelation...
For the devil to seek God's forgiveness, he would have to convicted by the Holy Spirit to do so. And that isn't going to happen.
Nobody, on their own accord, wants to repent. The Holy Spirit moves and people either come to God or they don't. (PLEASE don't turn this thread into a C/A nightmare.)
The Holy Spirit isn't going to come to the devil and convict him of his sinful nature because the angels in heaven and the demons in hell can't be offered salvation.
They were all, including satan, in God Almighty's physical and literal presence. They were in heaven to begin with and saw the Perfect, Holy, and Righteous God face-to-face.
For satan and one-third of the angels to have chosen to leave that Holy Presence and try to be gods themselves automatically gave them no opportunity to be saved.
The devil has no desire to go back to how he was. The bible tells us who he is.
He is loser. He knows he is a loser and is so angry at God for being God that his whole existence to take as many people as he can to hell with him.
The bible calls the devil "a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour" and the "father of lies."
And something to remember, the next time anyone wants to have a little sympathy for the devil (no Rolling Stones jokes, please)....
If he was able to convince one-third of the angels in heaven who were in the brilliant and protective shadow of God's Almighty and Holy Presence that leaving God was the thing to do and follow him.....then how much more can he convince mere humans to sin and to believe that he is the cosmic victim.
The devil is pure evil with no desire repent.
Just remember, at any given moment, he is making plans for all of us to become failures as human beings and as christians. :BangHead:
I don't like these questions that make the devil out to be some sympathetic character in a play.
Nobody, on their own accord, wants to repent. The Holy Spirit moves and people either come to God or they don't. (PLEASE don't turn this thread into a C/A nightmare.)
The Holy Spirit isn't going to come to the devil and convict him of his sinful nature because the angels in heaven and the demons in hell can't be offered salvation.
They were all, including satan, in God Almighty's physical and literal presence. They were in heaven to begin with and saw the Perfect, Holy, and Righteous God face-to-face.
For satan and one-third of the angels to have chosen to leave that Holy Presence and try to be gods themselves automatically gave them no opportunity to be saved.
The devil has no desire to go back to how he was. The bible tells us who he is.
He is loser. He knows he is a loser and is so angry at God for being God that his whole existence to take as many people as he can to hell with him.
The bible calls the devil "a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour" and the "father of lies."
And something to remember, the next time anyone wants to have a little sympathy for the devil (no Rolling Stones jokes, please)....
If he was able to convince one-third of the angels in heaven who were in the brilliant and protective shadow of God's Almighty and Holy Presence that leaving God was the thing to do and follow him.....then how much more can he convince mere humans to sin and to believe that he is the cosmic victim.
The devil is pure evil with no desire repent.
Just remember, at any given moment, he is making plans for all of us to become failures as human beings and as christians. :BangHead:
I don't like these questions that make the devil out to be some sympathetic character in a play.
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Tom Butler
New Member
Wow, this has opened up a whole theological can of worms for me. Let's think through it.
For us humans, our first willful sin was enough to qualify us for eternal damnation in hell. God's holiness and justice require that every sin must be paid for. Thus we are all condemned and without excuse and without hope.
So the only basis for forgiveness is if the sin is paid for by someone who does not have sin of his own to pay for. Which, of course, Jesus did, thus making it possible for God to be both just and the justifier.
We have no clue from the scriptures whether such provision has been made for celestial beings. But without such atonement by one who does not deserve the punishment, God has no basis on which to forgive Satan.
For us humans, our first willful sin was enough to qualify us for eternal damnation in hell. God's holiness and justice require that every sin must be paid for. Thus we are all condemned and without excuse and without hope.
So the only basis for forgiveness is if the sin is paid for by someone who does not have sin of his own to pay for. Which, of course, Jesus did, thus making it possible for God to be both just and the justifier.
We have no clue from the scriptures whether such provision has been made for celestial beings. But without such atonement by one who does not deserve the punishment, God has no basis on which to forgive Satan.
Satan is quite secure in his state of salvation. It won't change. He isn't a human being to ask for forgiveness. Satan is an angel, and I don't see, in scripture, where Christ's blood covers angels.
Joseph_Botwinick
<img src=/532.jpg>Banned
TaliOrlando said:
A Calvinist would say no. A non-Calvinist would say yes.
Merry Christmas everyone.:laugh:
Joseph Botwinick
Joseph M. Smith
New Member
Joseph_Botwinick said:
I think this is one of those questions which has no answer, either because we have no data, or because it just includes unthinkable stuff ... it is the theological version of the old conundrum, "What happens when an "irresistible force meets an immovable object"?
I don't know, but I don't want to be around when it happens!
Your friend needs to be more focused on practical Christian living than on speculation which has no answers, and, even if it did have an answer, would have no practical value for living or witnessing.
tragic_pizza
New Member
I'm a Calvinist, and I said "yes."Joseph_Botwinick said:
So... wrong.
If any of you are unsure about this and believe that it is possible for the devil to repent and be forgiven by God, don't take my word for it....
....read Jude 1:6 and Revelation 12:7-12.
....read Jude 1:6 and Revelation 12:7-12.
tragic_pizza
New Member
No one is saying it's possible.
If it were possible, that's the question.
If it were possible, that's the question.
tragic_pizza said:
Isn't asking if it "were" possible opening the realm that it potentially "is" possible.
No one is saying it's possible? I see people questioning that very thing.
Tragic Pizza: "Hmmmmm...I'm a little vague on forgiveness for beings in the spirit realm."
Tom Butler: "We have no clue from scripture whether such provision has been made for celestial beings."
Joseph M. Smith: "I think this is one of those questions that has no answer."
Jude 1:6 and Revelation 12:7-12 are just two examples that should remove any vagueness, provide clues, and answer the question.
:saint:
tragic_pizza
New Member
OK, well, perish forbid we discuss anything you don't approve of.
he won't and no
salvation isn't for angels anyway
salvation isn't for angels anyway
tragic_pizza said:
Huh?
Come on now, don't take your toys and go home. :flower:
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
TaliOrlando said:
As it turns out - intelligent beings are kinda like cookies.
They start out in whatever form God makes them - soft and gooey -- but then they face some of life's hard questions, gaps in understanding, having to walk by faith on some point where "they" don't have absolute knowledge - and that creates a fork in the road.
Decisions are made - character is cemented and eventually "the cookie is baked". The stronger the light of truth - the stronger the heat - the faster it bakes.
Satan's cookie "done bin baked". Putting it back in the oven won't change it back to cookie dough.
In Christ,
Bob
Brother Bob
New Member
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BobRyan
Well-Known Member
True - but does it really say "God gets offended takes His toys and goes home" when someone commits the unpardonable sin - OR is the sin unpardonable BECAUSE of the cookie principle.
God is the one that MAKES the cookie dough AND the oven - it is HIS system -- and once the cookie is baked - the deal is done. End of story - no more baking to be done.
IF Satan COULD turn himself back into cookie dough he COULD have a different acceptance of truth and light and selfless love as God draws him to the light. But having been "fully baked" on his current disposition "the system" created by God simply reveals the final outcome. It is what it is.
Some cookies in the hardening - baking process turn toward Christ -- others against Him... but at some point the cookie stops changing -- it is what it is. Rev 22 "Let him who is holy be holy still... let him who is filthy be filthy still"
And it is the system that God designed. The cookies once baked - remain.
Matt 7 points it out - as does Romans 2.
In Christ,
Bob
God is the one that MAKES the cookie dough AND the oven - it is HIS system -- and once the cookie is baked - the deal is done. End of story - no more baking to be done.
IF Satan COULD turn himself back into cookie dough he COULD have a different acceptance of truth and light and selfless love as God draws him to the light. But having been "fully baked" on his current disposition "the system" created by God simply reveals the final outcome. It is what it is.
Some cookies in the hardening - baking process turn toward Christ -- others against Him... but at some point the cookie stops changing -- it is what it is. Rev 22 "Let him who is holy be holy still... let him who is filthy be filthy still"
And it is the system that God designed. The cookies once baked - remain.
Matt 7 points it out - as does Romans 2.
In Christ,
Bob