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If the Vaccines Work, Why Aren't They Working?

A

Aaron

Member
Site Supporter
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2021/11/if_the_vaccines_work_why_arent_they_working.html

Are they effective? The CDC answers an emphatic yes,

COVID-19 study shows mRNA vaccines reduce risk of infection by 91 percent for fully vaccinated people. Vaccination makes illness milder, shorter for the few vaccinated people who do get COVID-19.​

Does the real world agree and support the CDC’s optimism? Gibraltar is more than fully vaccinated, they are 118 percent vaccinated, meaning that many fully vaccinated have had booster injections too. Yet this headline doesn’t jive with CDC assertions, “Most vaccinated place on Earth told to cancel holiday plans amid an exponential rise in COVID cases.”

Pick another country: “93% vaccinated Ireland has gone into partial lockdown, including midnight curfew.” This recent headline too, “COVID surge in Singapore despite 80 percent vaccination.” Or from the U.K. where the Spectator reported, “The rates of Covid infection per 100,000 are now higher among the vaxxed than the unvaxxed.”

Closer to home it’s much the same, “Vermont has the highest vaccination rate in the country. So why are cases surging?” My home state of Colorado is singing from the same hymnal, “Colorado’s COVID hospitalizations jump again as virus’ statewide death toll surpasses 9,000.” Colorado’s 12 and up population is over 80 percent partially or fully vaccinated.​
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I think the term is "fog of war." Almost everything I have posted on the topic has been met with claims my data is invalid. Thus we shout from entrenched positions using words the other side disavows.

Let's take Vermont:
1) What is the vaccination rate among those numbered in the "cases surging" claim?
2) What is the number of hospitalizations as a percent of the "cases surging?"
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Aaron said:
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2021/11/if_the_vaccines_work_why_arent_they_working.html
Are they effective? The CDC answers an emphatic yes,

COVID-19 study shows mRNA vaccines reduce risk of infection by 91 percent for fully vaccinated people. Vaccination makes illness milder, shorter for the few vaccinated people who do get COVID-19.​
Does the real world agree and support the CDC’s optimism? Gibraltar is more than fully vaccinated, they are 118 percent vaccinated, meaning that many fully vaccinated have had booster injections too. Yet this headline doesn’t jive with CDC assertions, “Most vaccinated place on Earth told to cancel holiday plans amid an exponential rise in COVID cases.”

Pick another country: “93% vaccinated Ireland has gone into partial lockdown, including midnight curfew.” This recent headline too, “COVID surge in Singapore despite 80 percent vaccination.” Or from the U.K. where the Spectator reported, “The rates of Covid infection per 100,000 are now higher among the vaxxed than the unvaxxed.”

Closer to home it’s much the same, “Vermont has the highest vaccination rate in the country. So why are cases surging?” My home state of Colorado is singing from the same hymnal, “Colorado’s COVID hospitalizations jump again as virus’ statewide death toll surpasses 9,000.” Colorado’s 12 and up population is over 80 percent partially or fully vaccinated.​
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Its like the blind trying to lead the blind!

INFECTIONS are NOT the important factor here. There could be 99.9% of those INFECTED, who only have very mild symptoms, or none at all, as there have been many cases. What really matters is the deaths from covid and those having to be admitted to hospital, and very serious, needing to be on a ventilator!

Here in the UK, both the latter are WAY DOWN from last year, as is most of Western Europe
 
DaveXR650

DaveXR650

Well-Known Member
Vermont has a death rate of about 649 per million. States like Florida for example have a death rate 4 times higher. If you are against vaccinations I wouldn't use Vermont.

Also, if Vermont has an extremely high vaccination rate, then using the statement above regarding vaccination effectiveness (91%) you have an equal chance if you are a virus of coming into contact with a vulnerable vaccinated person as you do a person who chose not to be vaccinated. In addition, the people in the 9% who are vaccinated but not helped there is going to be I think a high percentage of those who are in poor health or at least have a weakened immune system. So compared to the 10-20 % who are usually fairly healthy and chose not to get a vaccine it is perfectly logical that the amount of vaccinated people in the hospitals will rise as more people are vaccinated. Your pool of individuals becomes more skewed toward vulnerable but vaccinated individuals.

It is funny, the two guys that took over for Rush were just on blasting the vaccine - but then they mentioned that their own parents have all been fully vaccinated.
 
A

Aaron

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Site Supporter
SavedByGrace said:
Its like the blind trying to lead the blind!

INFECTIONS are NOT the important factor here. There could be 99.9% of those INFECTED, who only have very mild symptoms, or none at all, as there have been many cases. What really matters is the deaths from covid and those having to be admitted to hospital, and very serious, needing to be on a ventilator!

Here in the UK, both the latter are WAY DOWN from last year, as is most of Western Europe
Click to expand...
You didn't read the article.
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Aaron said:
The vaccines are not protecting against hospitalization and death.
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well, that has got to be nonsense! The fact that after people are getting vaccinated, both hospitalizations and deaths have hugely dropped, must be evidence that the vaccine is working! Forget stats, facts are what really counts!
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Aaron said:
What you're showing here is most likely the result of being very close to herd immunity by infection.

Afterall, once it was evident the vaccines didn't work to immunize, as first touted, then the narrative was changed to say they're a good therupeutic.

Now that's not even the case. Now we need continual doses.
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all you are doing is thrashing the vaccine at any cost!
 
O

OnlyaSinner

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Less than 100% effective is not the same as "not working". There were folks claiming that the vaccines worked always, and that was wrong information. Has ANY vaccine been 100% effective? The Sabin polio vaccine? Smallpox? Few if any are 100% effective, as people are different and react differently to meds and to diseases.

Just looked at the Johns Hopkins page on COVID. US cases are up to 47.8 million. Given that some have contracted the disease more than once, that might be 45 million individuals having had COVID-19, about 13% of the US population. The country has administered nearly 450 million individual COVID vaccinations, and probably over 200 million considered as fully vaccinated when the one-shot J&J and the 3rd-shot boosters are considered. If the vaccines are 95% effective and if without being vaxxed 13% of that 200 million would've contracted COVID, a 95% prevention would mean 1.3 million breakthrough cases. That's a huge number, but would seemingly be better than tens of millions of cases.
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Aaron said:
No I'm not. I'm just summarizing the data and the rhetoric.

Get the jab if you want and if your conscience lets you. Just be truthful.
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I have had my first jab in early July.

You are cherry-picking the data to suit your narrative and bias.
 
DaveXR650

DaveXR650

Well-Known Member
That's true and the above numbers show there is still a huge pool of people who have never been in contact with Covid. Rising cases from a variant that is hugely more infectious in populations where only 10% of people have had the disease and the vaccine still lets you test positive makes statistical sense. Get on the talk radio and get affirmed if you want but at least they were honest enough to tell you that their own folks got vaccinated.
 
A

Aaron

Member
Site Supporter
DaveXR650 said:
That's true and the above numbers show there is still a huge pool of people who have never been in contact with Covid.
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If you like math, then the applying the Infection Fatality Rate, consistently found to be around 0.25 and 0.3 percent, to the current CDC covid fatality count in the U.S. means that over 252 million Americans have been infected with covid, and over 251 million surviving. That's 76% of the U.S. population that have been infected and developed immunity.

Another conservative estimate is that 30% of those with meaningful exposure to covid do not get infected due to immunity to common cold corona viruses.

That raises the total number of Americans exposed to covid to a number greater than the total population, so there is something sketchy in the CDC's numbers.

Regardless, far from confirming your assertion that there is a 'huge pool of people who have never been in contact with Covid,' the math reveals just the opposite.
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Aaron said:
Taking your merry sweet time for the second one, aren't you? What are you waiting for? Do you have no confidence in the jab, or do you feel no sense of urgency?

No I'm not. You are.
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I have a number of health issues that are slowing things down
 
DaveXR650

DaveXR650

Well-Known Member
Total cases in the US are about 48 million. The mortality rate varies widely with age brackets. Older people have a very good chance of getting seriously ill with Covid which is why the radio talk show guys parents are all vaccinated. They love to talk it down for ratings to rile up people like you but their relatives will be safe.
 
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