Agnus_Dei said:
So how did people dip and soak their crusty arm pits after sweating all day? Fill up a big tub of water and soak in it? Let’s use some logic here Eliyahu, please.
Baptizo has never meant Sprinkle in the Bible. When you baptize a person by Sprinkling, do you wash him or her? Maybe you have to shave him first, er? The primary meaning of Baptizo is Dip and Immerse, which no one can deny, but it is used for washing which may have originated from dipping the hands etc into the water in the basin. When it is used for Ritual Bath, it never meant Sprinkling, nothing other than Immersion.
Are you claiming that Sprinkling is the same as Washing?
You are trying to confess that your religion just declare Whitewash instead of Burial and Resurrection, aren't you?
Actually Eliyahu you where the one to point out in your number 2 post of this thread that immersion was the ONLY mode permissible in the Bible, so I was responding to that.
OK
In regard to the Didache, this is not about providing details surrounding the Didache, but to show you and the class that we have a manuscript written in Greek, where the writer uses the word baptizo to mean something besides immersion in water.
At least you have to declare who was it unless you are saying it from your dream. If he meant other than immersion, what did he claim as the meaning of Baptizo?
Thanks for the verse, but I doubt that John exclusively uses Lev 14:8 as his means of starting baptism. Interestingly enough Lev 14:8 talks a lot about washing ones clothes and himself in water to be clean. Also check Lev 14:7 we see that water was sprinkled on the person who had leprosy. I don’t see immersion anywhere.
You need some more study which can hardly be found among Catholics.
The priest had to take 2 birds, the one was killed in the earthen vessel over the flowing water ( Lev 14:5), then take the other bird and dip the bird into the Blood of the first bird along with hyssop and Scarlet, then sprinkle the Blood unto the Leper seven times.
Thereafter the Leper wash himself in the Bath( verse 8), the Bath was called Mikveh and the bathing was called Rahats which is the same as Baptizo in Greek. Inside the temple there was the running water, and at the time of King Hezekiah, they built the Water Supply line so that they can bathe all the time in the living water, which still exists.
Often the blood of the Birds were replaced by the Ash-Water which is well explained in Numbers 19:1-22. The Red Heifer is the exact shadow of Jesus Christ as it was no blemish, spotless, never yoked. That Heifer was killed outside the city as Jesus was, and the Ashes was laid up and kept for purification water. The Purification water was SPRINKLED unto the sinners, and thereafter the sinners bathed himself in the Mikveh ( Ritual Bath), then he becomes ritually clean ( Tahor). Can you understand this? Read Lev 14 and Numbers 19.
We do read in Holy Scripture were water has been the source of life and fruitfulness and we see in Genesis 1:2 were water was overshadowed by the Spirit of God.
Yes, but it has the Power of Death by immersion too when we read the Flood at the time of Noah which swallowed and immersed everything in the water.
The Church has seen in Noah’s ark a prefiguring of salvation by Baptism.
Noah's Ark represents the Church floating on top of Death of Jesus Christ, which was sealed with the Kopher ( Pitch covered inside and outside the Ark) which is the homonym of Redemption too.
The crossing of the Red Sea announces liberation wrought by Baptism.
Yes, correct, it was preceded by Passover which was the death of Jesus Christ.
Baptism is also prefigured in the crossing of the Jordan River where the people of God received the gift of the land promised to Abraham’s descendents as an image of eternal life.
Crossing Jordan may be like the death of the Christian believer after the life in the wilderness of this world.
The promise of this blessed inheritance is fulfilled in the New Covenant.
Of course.
Christ says in John that one must be born of water and the spirit to be ‘born again’. Catholics along with the Church Fathers and many Protestants such as Lutherans and Anglicans interpret this as a reference to baptism.
No, Sir. It is a huge misunderstanding! Born again by Water and the Holy Spirit means that one should be born again by the Word of God and the Holy Spirit. Water is the typical expression by Apostle John. Read 1 John 5:8.
Read verse 8:
And there are three that bear witness in earth,
the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
Why didn't Jesus mention the Blood then? Because those 2 ( HS and Water) will witness the Blood and Death of JC.
Why does Jesus ask us to be born again by Water and the Holy Spirit?
Water has the Cleansing Power by Death of Immersion.
As Zenas pointed out earlier, the problem is the difference of beliefs regarding baptism itself.
As Catholics, since the NT era, they see baptism as a Sacrament that which accomplishes several things, the first of which is the remission of sins, both original and actual sin; only original sin in the case of infants and young children, since they are incapable of actual sin; and both original and actual sin in the case of older adults.
Be careful as you are in the big trap of misunderstanding here.
Baptism doesn't mean any salvation at all. The Robber at the Cross was saved and went to the Paradise though he was not baptized.
Let's say we have one man who was not saved yet. In your theory, as soon as you baptize him, he is saved. It means that he was not saved before Baptism, then after Baptism he is saved. In other words, he didn't believe in Jesus before Baptism but you baptised him when he didn't believe Jesus. Then did he become to believe in Jesus by Baptism?
Baptismal Regeneration( which you are claiming now) is nothing but the confession that they are baptizing the Unbelievers, Non-Christians, they are strongly confessing that their religion is to bring the pagan believers into the church.
Once again, imagine this:
One second before you dip the unbelieving person into the water, he was unsaved and unbeliever, then one second after the Baptism, miraculously he becomes saved and a believer, this is theory of Baptismal Regeneration. Believers' Baptism means that the person repented already and accepted Jesus as his or her Lord in the life, then based on such confession of faith, as we read Acts 8:37-38, we baptise the believer who was already born again by the Water and the Holy Spirit.
Baptism doesn't make the people be born again, but the Baptism is performed to the person who was already born again in the Lord Jesus by the Holy spirit.
The reason we see Paul saying to repent and be baptized for the remission of sins, is b/c he was preaching to adults, who were still stained with both original and actual sin. So yes, they had to repent and be baptized.
You may be talking about Peter( not Paul) in Acts 2:38, Repent relates to the Remission of the Sin, and the Baptism is based upon it and brings the gift of the Holy Spirit. That verse is often abused as well.
An infant baptized is cleansed from original sin and once he gets of age, he goes through confirmation, where he repents of his actual sins.
-
There is no teaching in the Bible like that. The Infant baptism doesn't help anything in their future life. No confirmation is found in the Bible. Your theory is orginated from the misunderstanding mentioned above.
BTW, Agnus, you found the difference between Circumcision and Baptism.
Everyone needs to circumcise the foreskin of the hearts, right? The infants must listen to the Gospel and have the foreskins of their hearts be circumcised, right?
I suspect you have never read those Bible verses before you posted them.
