Interdenominational Dealings

My opinion is that the christian is not wrong at all.
Why would a church have a problem with a member helping out another church?
If our goal is to reach out to our cities with the gospel, why should there be a problem at all?
Naomi
(Unless there is a hidden agenda somewhere )

 

I think the most important thing is to stay true to the truth. It's all good to have fellowship with christians from other demoniations but if that demoniation does not share the same fundemental beliefs as you do (or has beleifs that you don't) then I would have a problem with the person becomming involved in their ministires (such as VBS) or anything else that would involve teaching.

Bugman

 

Why don’t you ask "what dose the Bible say?" instead of "what do you think?"

Romans 16:17
17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

Ephesians 5:11
11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove [them].

2 John 1:8
8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.

2 John 1:9
9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

2 John 1:10
10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into [your] house, neither bid him God speed:

2 John 1:11
11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

If you are a member of an IFB Church, your church, most likely, has by-laws that po-po you're partaking in apostate religions. If so, you inured into a covenant with your Church, that stated you agreed with and would abide with that position.

What dose the Bible Say about a Church Member who is to self willed and rebellious to abide by the doctrines that church believes? Wouldn't it be better if that person came to the church and told them what they wanted to do and then, then if he/she couldn't go along with what the church wanted, resign membership?

Ps: I was privileged to read the Minutes of a local church from one hundred years ago. In them, the church disfellowshipped a woman for the same thing.

[ June 09, 2002, 06:17 PM: Message edited by: Larry ]

 

"If I wasn't willing to listen to what the Bible said about it, I wouldn't have asked other Christians for their personal thoughts, since I assume that their thoughts will be based on biblical principle"

Good point

 

We were discussing something like that just tonight. If it were another Baptst church I would, but not another denomination. Simply becasue of the differences in teachings, am I to support a teaching I do not believe in. I used to chat with a Lutheran on another christian bb, I don't know a whole lot about it, but I know they are closer to catholic then baptist. Whether I'm teaching or no, I would feel I was supporting what I didn't believe.
But you can do whatever you feel you can.

 

As long as they hold to the essentials of the faith, I can't think of a good reason not to cooperate with them to spread the Gospel.

We in the church build walls to segregate ourselves based on the goofiest things. I've got to wonder how much we could accomplish if we would look for things in each other that unite us, rather than spend so much effort dividing over minor issues.

I'm SBC, I used to attend Wed services at a non-denom church and was involved in an evangelistic ministry of a local Methodist church.

I can't begin to tell you how positive an effect that had on me.

Mike

[ June 09, 2002, 10:40 PM: Message edited by: Smoke_Eater ]

 

Well Larry,

If Lutherans are horrible apostate sinners, then I'm in big trouble, cause I live with 5 of them. Except for little ol' me everyone in my family is Lutheran.

To say Lutherans are Calothics is absurd at best. Remember that phrase "Faith alone, Christ alone, Scripture alone"? Guess who coined it? Yep, a Lutheran

Lutherans are very much like Catholics in their worship style, which is liturgical, but you have liturgical Baptists as well (not many, but they are out there. Your main doctrinal problems with the Lutheran church will be there habit of baptizing infants and their belief about communion. Lutherans believe in infant baptism and they believe Christ is present in on and under the elements in the Eucherist (that's communion for my Baptist speaking folk). The Catholic church believes the elements physically become the blood and body of Christ (Luther thought they were nuts, but then again, he had some very choice phrases for the Catholic body that don't need repeating here- yet he liked AnaBaptists even less).

I don't think you'll run into much trouble helping with something like a VBS in a Lutheran Church. I won't. You're not likely to run into having to teach infant baptism, and their view on communion isn't entirely foriegn to us, just petty details really. I would go for it. I think its always important to experience what other brothers and sisters in the faith are doing.

Just my thoughts.

Brother Adam

 

I don't think infant baptism is a petty detail, telling a child they go to heaven becasue they were baptized is not biblical. If you believe it then you can teach in a Lutheran church I supose.

 

I found these on a couple of Lutheran sites, doesn't sound nearly Baptist(any baptist church I've heard of anyway) to me, sounds closer to catholic. Notice I didn't say they were catholic, but that their doctrines were closer to catholic then baptist.

The command in Matthew 28:19 ; Mark 16:16 is all-embracing; so is the statement concerning the necessity of baptism in John 3:5 . After reading these statements, one feels inclined, not to ask, Should infants be baptized? but Why should they not be baptized? The onus probandi rests on those who reject infant baptism. The desire to have their infants baptized must have been manifested on the day when the first three thousand were baptized at Jerusalem, assuming that they were all adults. The old covenant had provided for their children; was the new to be inferior to the old in this respect?
The baptism of entire households is presumptive evidence that children and infants were baptized in apostolic times (Acts 16:15,33 ; 18:8 ; 1 Corinthians 1:16 ). The arguments against infant baptism imply defective views on the subject of original sin and the efficacy of baptism. Infant faith--for, faith is as necessary to the infant as to the adult--may baffle our attempts at explanation and definition; but God who extends His promises also to children (Acts 2:39 ), who established His covenant even with beasts (Genesis 9:16,17 ); Christ who blessed also little children (Mark 10:13 ), and spoke of them as believers (Matthew 18:6 ), certainly does not consider the regeneration of a child or infant a greater task than that of an adult (compare Matthew 18:3,4 ).

5. THE MEANS OF GRACE
We confess that God has instituted certain Means of Grace through which He announces
and bestows the forgiveness of sins and the blessings of life and salvation, and through
which the Holy Spirit works faith in the individual sinner to receive these blessings. These
Means of Grace are His Word of the Gospel, which offers us free salvation through faith
in Christ; Holy Baptism, which is described in Scripture as a "washing of regeneration and
renewing of the Holy Spirit;" and the Lord's Supper, in which the true body and blood of
Christ are distributed to the communicants. It is the Word of God connected with the
earthly elements which makes Holy Baptism and the Lord's Supper effective means
through which forgiveness, life and salvation are truly offered to those who receive these
sacraments. The Gospel of Jesus Christ, in written, spoken and sacramental form, is able
to do all this because it is the power of God Himself.
Holy Baptism has the power to work the new life of faith in the hearts of sinners. This
regenerative washing "with water through the Word" is intended for all people, since all --
including infants and children -- are members of a sinful human race and are in need of
God's grace and forgiveness. Jesus has also commanded that "all nations" be baptized.
According to Christ's Word and institution, His body
and blood are truly present, distributed and received in the Lord's Supper, under the forms
of bread and wine. This Supper is intended for Christians who know and adhere to the
teachings of God's Word, who are able to examine themselves on the basis of that Word,
and who repent of their sins and look to Christ alone for forgiveness. The body and blood
of Christ are offered and received in this Sacrament for the remission of sins and for the
strengthening of faith. The forgiveness of sins which is offered by God through the Means
of Grace can be rejected by an unbelieving heart, but it is received for salvation by all who
believe in Christ. See Mark 16:15, Luke 24:47, John 15:3, Matt. 28:19, John 3:5, Eph.
5:26, Titus 3:5, Acts 2:38-39, 1 Cor. 10:16-17, 11:23-29, Matt. 26:28, Rom. 1:16, John
20:21-23, Mark 16:16, Rom. 3:28 and 4,5.

 

How truly sad this is I can understand if they were serving a different "Jesus" ie. JWS etc. I would not want to support that at all. We are talking about a denomination that teaches the same Jesus. VBS is not any threat whatsoever to any mainline denomination. I grew up attending VBS. These are children, not theologians. I assure you, they are not going to get caught up in tremendous theological discussions.
I have to wonder who is the "divisive" ones Jesus is making reference to?
Naomi

 

It has to do with supporting what you do not believe is biblical. If you did you'd be Luthern, not Baptist. Besides what Lutheran church is going to want a Baptist teaching Baptist doctrines? Or would you teach Lutheran doctrines? How much are you willing to comprimise what God's word says? Are you willing to teach children that infants should be baptized so they can go to heaven? That if their baptized their going to heaven? Wheres the salvation in that? Not thats whats sad.
I am not willing to comprimise scripture.
Whats sad is those who are willing too.

 

What is also sad is seeing those who practice biblical seperation get their motives questioned.

 

I also add my voice to those who would not advise participation in another denominations VBS. Baptism and Communion are definitely a hot buttons with other denominations (not just the Lutherans) but also such beliefs as eternal salvation, the Trinity, church polity and autonomy, and the sole sufficiency of Scripture are likely to come up.

No, the children are not theologians but you would be surprised the questions that children will ask. This year, Margie and I are the VBS directors but last year we did the Bible exploration part of our VBS and the kids are no dummies!

This year we are using a program that explores Baptist distinctives and the story of Anne Judson is used. The topic of infant baptism is mentioned in this account and I received some criticism for the choice of the program. I simply answered, "Have we become so politically correct that we are scared to tell people what we know of the Scriptures?" Needless to say, the program is running on course. It's hard to debate a Baptist Board member on things like this.

If you're helping with food preparation you might be safe. Otherwise, your faith may be tested before a "hostile" audience. Try exploring the other religions forum before you commit to helping these folks. You may want to just wait and go Christmas carolling with them.

 

Amen, Bro. Clint!
"False teaching" abounds! Steer clear of it! Stand on your doctrine without compromise! But, by all means, praise God with anyone and everyone!

In Christ,
Mike

 

I agree that we should never compromise our doctrinal beliefs I do not believe in infant baptism, nor would I teach it.
Have times changed or what? When I was a young girl, we attended VBS every summer. All I remember is hearing a bible story, then doing crafts, then we sang a few songs. The only thing that really stuck out in my memory, is the way they loved God, and the way they cared for me. This experience really had an impact upon my life.
I certainly am not a person who thinks we should compromise important doctrines, I just think that we should first find out what is being taught, and if we can agree upon the program being taught, then there should be no reason not to help out. There are certain cases that it would not be a problem. I guess that is what I meant.
I just find it sad that we cannot help each other out when there is such a need to reach out to children.
Naomi

 

Another important concern with being involved in such a VBS is how the personal work will be done. Generally speaking Baptists & Lutherans vary greatly regarding a biblical view of salvation.

Many VBS programs are promoted by Child Evangelism. There are often gimmicks, prizes, or rewards offered to children who make a profession of faith. The children are led to pray a simple prayer and are told they are saved.

This happens even happens in some Baptist churches, It's best to stay seperate from denominations with "another gospel" because it is a false gospel.

 

When I attended VBS, way back in the 70's, I was never led into a prayer of salvation. I remember being told about who Jesus is. My parents were not Christians, and our family did not attend church. An elderly couple would take the neighborhood children to VBS. I always thought about how much Jesus must love those kids whose parents brought them to church every Sunday. I also thought that they were perfect families. I did not think God loved me because our family did not attend church. VBS changed that mind-set. I will always remember VBS, because it was a life-changing experience for me. I could not tell you the specifics of the program, or if they believed in infant baptism, but I can tell you that it was VBS that I learned that Jesus really loves me. I have carried that knowledge throughout all the bumpy years of adolescence. I knew that, because of the adults who first introduced me to Jesus. They are the ones who made a difference.
Another gospel? I don't think so.
Another Jesus? I don't think so.
I am so very thankful for VBS, and all the people who reach out to kids like this. Correct doctrine is important. Lessons sometimes are better caught than taught.
May we not forsake the VBS (with correct teaching) that are going on in our cities!
God Bless the ones who are giving to the kids through VBS!
You do not realize the impact it has on children. I never realized until years later what impact it had on my life .
Naomi