Irresistible Grace Summed Up By Jesus

:thumbs: I happen to agree.

 

Martin,

I'm sure you know that that text doesn't really mean what we think it means.

 

Jesus didn't seem a bit confused over the issue did He.

 

It seems as if He meant what He said too. When we read His prayer in John 17... it seems He mentions it five times again. Of course we know that God only gave em to Jesus AFTER they repented and believed.... :laugh: (sarcasm alert) thats why Jesus said He was not praying for the world, but those whom the Father gave Him.

 

JOHN 6:37-40 "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

Calvinistic theology focuses on the first part of John 6:37 to support the TULIP doctrine of irresistible grace. If the first half of John 6:37 is taken out of context, it does appear to teach some sort of irresistible grace, but it cannot be forced from its context.

"All that the Father giveth me shall come to me" refers to the fact that the Father has ordained that every believer will have eternal life. This is explained clearly in verse 40 - "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day." Words could not be plainer, and this is what the New Testament repeatedly promises. The Gospel is not limited to the elect. The Gospel is for whosoever will, and the elect are the whosoever will. Consider the teaching of John chapter six which refutes the TULIP doctrine of irresistible grace: (1) The Lord Jesus Christ died for whole world (Jn. 6:51; compare Luke 2:10,30-32; John 1:29; 3:16; Rom. 15:8-12; Eph. 2:11-22; 1 Tim. 2:6; Heb. 2:9; 1 Pet. 3:19-21; 1 John 4:14). (2) It is God's express will for all men to saved (Jn. 6:40; compare John 3:16; 1 Tim. 2:4; 2 Peter 3:9). (3) Any man who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ has eternal life (Jn. 6:40,47,51).

Second, there is the context of the entire Gospel of John, which repeatedly emphasizes the universal call of God inviting sinners to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and which repeatedly promises that whosoever shall believe on the Lord Jesus Christ shall be saved. This is the theme of John's Gospel, and it is the purpose for the book. "But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name" (John 20:31). The Gospel is not addressed merely to "the elect" but to every individual in the entire world. It is an elect only Gospel, but a whosoever Gospel.

Someone will doubtless point to verse 44 to support the doctrine of irresistible grace: "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." This verse does not prove that God sovereignly chooses who will and will not be saved, for the Bible also tells us that God desires all men to be saved (1 Tim. 2:4; 2 Pet. 3:9). It is absolutely true that no man can come to Christ except the Father draw him, but Jesus said in John 12:32, "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL MEN unto me." How does God draw men to Christ? He draws through the Gospel, which He has commanded to be preached to every creature (Mark 16:15). It is by the Gospel that God calls men (2 Thess. 2:14). 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 tells us that those who are lost are lost not because they are not chosen for salvation, but because THEY RECEIVED NOT THE LOVE OF THE TRUTH, THAT THEY MIGHT BE SAVED.

In John 6 the Lord Jesus Christ is addressing the Jewish crowds which were following Him because of the miracle of the multiplying loaves (John 6:24-26). Their minds were set on worldly things. They wanted a worldly savior and king, a political and social messiah. The Lord had irrefutably proven His messiahship to them by His birth, life, and miracles, but they still asked for "a sign" (verse 30) and they did not believe (verse 36, "ye also have seen me, and believe not"). Why did most of the Jewish people not believe? Why did the Jewish leaders not believe? It was not because God had not chosen them? It was because of THEIR OWN HARD HEARTS. When Christ wept over Jerusalem just prior to His crucifixion, He stated this matter plainly: "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, HOW OFTEN WOULD I HAVE GATHERED THY CHILDREN TOGETHER, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and YE WOULD NOT!" (Matthew 23:37). The problem was not that the unbelieving Jews were not chosen for salvation. Christ would have saved all of them. The problem was that they rejected Him. The problem was the will. Christ would, but they would not. Man has the capability to reject God, and He has the capability to receive God. That is taught from the beginning of the Bible to the end.

I do not deny that there is a special work of God in the believer's life to draw him to Christ. It is impossible for a man to come to Christ except God drawn him and enlighten him and convict him; but this is precisely what God does by the Holy Spirit for every man who hears the Gospel (John 16:8).

God's election cannot be divorced from His foreknowledge. We are "elect according to the foreknowledge of God" (1 Peter 1:2). God has known from all eternity who will and will not receive the Gospel.

God has chosen that those who receive the Gospel of Jesus Christ will be eternally saved!

"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day" (John 6:40).

 

Hello PK,

I am not going to debate irresistible grace. I believe it to be true, but it is hard to prove. It is also hard to disprove. Irresistible grace (IG) must be looked at with total depravity. I wrote a 3 part study on this, maybe 4 part, I can't remember right now linking the two. IG is but a short part of the study of the two linked together.

However, I would like for you to give a quick statement on what you quoted above. Do you feel must non-calvinist hold to God elects based on what he foreknows to be true. or....God elects who He knows will believe? I will not debate on this either. I just want your input as a non-Calvinist.



Thanks....

In Christ....James

 

What about all those folks who never hear the gospel? Just too bad they weren't born in a country, or at a time in history, when the gospel was being preached?

If God choses people for salvation based on what they do, then it is no longer grace. Grace means "unmerited favor".

You must believe in "merited favor" because that is what you just said. God saw who would believe, and chose people for salvation based on something they do. If God is responding to man, then man has earned his salvation before God, and it cannot rightly be called "grace" any longer.

peace to youraying:

 

If the Gospel call is irresistable, and God knows it, why does He fail to give it to all?

 

Hard hitting post, that kept with the subject....:thumbs:

 

But Scripture does tell us in so many words...it is NOT irresistable. What did Jesus say while lamenting over Jerusalem?

What mortals cannot understand is what goes on in one person's head as opposed to another, and why one accepts and one rejects. The call goes out to all to repent, but not all repent. If the call was irresistabel, everyone would repent, and we knot that is not the case. I've shared the Gospel with my mother in law who is not saved. If she dies in this state, the Gospel and Words of Christ are most definately not irresistable, but quite resistable, else there is no power in the words of Christ.

 

Martin, I think the issue becomes clear when you consider the OT context of the statement.

Who does God give to the Son? The OT saints first of all. He will raise them from their graves and they will come to Jesus/Messiah in the "rebirth" from death. The disciples must first be aware of this before they can go to the next concept -- that God delivers the "just" (Col 1:13) by 'translating them" as they live "into the kingdom of His dear Son."

IOW, when we are saved today, there are 2 things going on: 1) we are made "just" before God (same as OT) and 2) we are delivered over to the spiritual kingdom of Christ for sanctification of life. The OT saints weren't/couldn't be given over to Christ for the sanctification of life (which is the biblical way of saying we die to self and live to Christ) because there had come no physical Christ.

In summary, the scripture merely says that all believers in God will immediately or eventually be given into Christ's kingdom.

skypair

 

At least credit the source, unless you wrote it: http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/allthat-thefathergives.html

 

Accepting Christ's offer of eternal salvation is not a "work." Salvation is by Grace not works.