Is an elect necessarily a believer, and vice-versa ?

[pinoybaptist]

God will have mercy on whom He will have mercy on. He will have it on believers, beginning of time or here in time. So we have a message to spread if they don't hear it and believe they will not be saved.

Romans 10:
14How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"[Isaiah 52:7]

So, now, God will have mercy on whom He will have mercy, which means He is Sovereign, but that sovereignty ends where it meets with the unbelief of the sinner ? To the Jews were delivered the oracles of God, yet many of them remained in unbelief, but Paul says:

For what if some did not believe ? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect ? romans 3:3

For God hath concludedhttp://www.biblestudytools.com/kjv/romans/passage.aspx?q=Romans+11:27-36#fn-descriptionAnchor-c them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. romans 11:32

I do not desire to be on any mans wave length I desire to know Christ and Him crucified, who did it not for His own sake but the sake of others.

Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Then you shouldn't be in a discussion board, unless you want to show how pious and Biblical you are, and everyone else isn't, don't you think ?

 

[psalms109:31]

Belief

It isn't me who ask for belief but God.

I desire to know Christ and Him crucified and learn what others see and discuss with them. If anyone will change my belief it will be God and His word alone. My belief can change but the word of God, faith that comes from God that we should believe in, will never change

 

[pinoybaptist]

It isn't me who ask for belief but God.

I desire to know Christ and Him crucified and learn what others see and discuss with them. If anyone will change my belief it will be God and His word alone. My belief can change but the word of God, faith that comes from God that we should believe in, will never change

ok, God bless you and keep you.

 

[psalms109:31]

Bless you

May God bless you and Jesus has made a promise, He will not lose one that He has been given

 

[pinoybaptist]

Again I ask, am I understanding you correctly here?
Are you saying there are countless folks who were saved and did not even know or acknowledge it?

Unless you can show me Scripture that says the atonement of Christ for His people, His actual crucifixion, His death, His resurrection, all those things that were meant for the redemption of His people, whoever they are, are predicated on their belief and faith in Him, and that without their faith and belief in Him He would not have gone up the cross, then, yes, that is exactly what I am saying.

This is very easy, just look at all the passages that instruct us to believe.
Even father Abraham's belief counted for something. (Rom 4:3)
And because of Abraham's belief, he was given faith. (Rom 4:9)

I disagree on the basis of the above.

Again, you are mistakenly equating eternal salvation with time salvation.
The former is independent of the sinner's response, the second requires the sinner's response.

I agree.

How can you agree, when you just said and insist that the sinner also must have faith and belief in order for the blood of the cross to be effective ?
It's all OF the Lord, or it's not.

 

[Winman]

How can you agree, when you just said and insist that the sinner also must have faith and belief in order for the blood of the cross to be effective ?
It's all OF the Lord, or it's not.

The scriptures themselves say Christ's death on the cross is not effective unless one believes it.

1 Thess 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

The word of God only effectually works in those that believe it. We are born by the word of God.

1 Pet 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

If we are born again "by" the word of God, and the word of God only effectually works in those that believe, then you must believe the word of God to be born again.

And this is said elsewhere.

Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

The gospel is preached to many men, but only profits those that believe it, even though God's works were finished from the foundation of the world.

 

[pinoybaptist]

The scriptures themselves say Christ's death on the cross is not effective unless one believes it.

No, they do not, if you are talking of eternity.

1 Thess 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

The word of God only effectually works in those that believe it. We are born by the word of God.

True, and I do not deny this, but if this Scripture is applied to all the elect, then of necessity it follows that all the elect will become believers. Now, how can an infant who dies at birth, or in the womb become a believer, when "faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God" ? Or how can someone born before the cross, who are not of national Israel to whom the oracles of the One True God was delivered, and may be one of the elect, believe ?
Do you see that applying this Scripture to eternal salvation excludes countless others from the free grace of God to sinners, and makes it exclusive only to those who were born within the bounds of Israel, within the time of the gospel ?
This Scripture, and countless others that many here, including yourself quote as proof that faith and belief is a prerequisite to redemption is speaking of those who have come under the hearing of the gospel, have been converted, and are therefore, of those who believe and does not pertain to the whole body of the elect people of God who come from all over the world, and have existed in lands and nations of this world long before there was a land called Israel to whom the Living God chose to manifest Himself.

1 Pet 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

If we are born again "by" the word of God, and the word of God only effectually works in those that believe, then you must believe the word of God to be born again.

But this word of God is not the preached word, you see. It is the word of God directly from His mouth, in accordance with His will, a call to the spirit of the elect child of God, and is therefore effectual. Belief is proof, not cause, of the regeneration of a child of God.

And this is said elsewhere.

Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

The gospel is preached to many men, but only profits those that believe it, even though God's works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Again, like I said, I do not contest that the gospel profits those who hear and believe, but not unto eternity. Eternity was secured by Christ's work, and that alone.
His blood alone secured one's redemption, salvation, and justification.

There is no Scripture anyone can provide that quotes Jehovah of the Old Testament promising redemption IN EXCHANGE for faith and belief. Faith and belief are essential to salvation in a timely sense.
Eternal redemption is Christ's work alone.

 

[Winman]

Pinoybaptist, I have seen your doctrine many times and still fail to understand it. You have two kinds of salvation which I have never seen in scripture. Can you provide scripture that conclusively shows these two different salvations?