Is asking Jesus into your heart wrong?

[J. Jump]

Why do you need to know the exact day, time and year?

 

[xdisciplex]

I don't have to know it, I also don't know it. But the new birth happens at 1 point in time. It doesn't happen over a periode of time.

 

[J. Jump]

But the new birth happens at 1 point in time. It doesn't happen over a periode of time.

Absolutely correct!

 

[JFox1]

What you pray is irrelevant. It's what you believed that matters. At the point you believe you were saved did you have faith that Jesus Christ died in your place and shed His blood as your Substitute? If you believed that then you are saved.

Then I am saved because that's what I believed and still do.

If you have never believed that then a re-evaluation of what you believed in is in order.

Just as a side your future sins will be forgiven after they are committed and after they are confessed (I John 1:9).

The idea that the church teaches that all your sins have been dealt with at the time of salvation is an errant message. If there is no continual confession there is no forgiveness.

That is extremely tricky. What if you don't remember every bad thing you did or thought? According to what you said, if I didn't confess a sin because I forgot what it was, I would remain unforgiven because I didn't confess it. When I pray in church each week, I ask God to forgive me of all the sins I committed since the last time I asked for forgiveness of sins and confess the ones I remember. I also ask God to forgive me of all the sins I will have committed before the next time I ask for forgiveness of sins because what if I commit a sin and die before I could confess it?

 

[J. Jump]

If you don't remember ask God to reveal to you any sin that may be hindering your fellowship so that you might confess it.

God will answer your prayer!

 

[genesis12]

No. I ask Him to take control every morning, thank Him for doing that every night.

 

[Jim1999]

In the Church of England, when I was growing up, we were instructed at our confirmation "to realize Christ as our Saviour". I rather like that expression. That is exactly what I did at that time. I always believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, but it was not until my confirmation that I realized that Christ was indeed my Saviour and I realized Him into my life,,,,,,,,often understood by "heart"; the seat of all being, as understood in the Old Testament, when they spoke of their heart, and not the physical organ.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[webdog]

Webdog the problem is that John is writing about the church. In the context of the messages to the churches it is only saved individuals that are in view.

An example of what I was talking about would be true believers in a Catholic church (church in name only, as Jesus Christ is not taught in that denomination as THE way to salvation). The message was to the church at Laodicea, but it was a "church" in name only, with the majority within the church unbelievers. The knocking was to come back into the church, since the church had become disgusting, most likely made up primarily of gnostic unbelievers.

 

[xdisciplex]

I think the danger here is simply that you cannot say that a christian who asked Jesus into his heart is not the real deal and you also cannot simply say that a christian who used a much better and clearer terminology is the real deal. I think you can also pray a totally naive prayer and it doesn't matter at all, what matters is wether you are sincere or not.
But actually you could also ask where does sincerity come from. Is it something which you either have or don't or is it also something which God brings forth? I mean can a sincere christian attribute this to himself and can he say that he does not slide back because he is sincere? Can he honor himself for being sincere or should he rather be even more humble because he is sincere and others aren't?
It's like the desire for truth. Once I listened to Derek Prince and he said that unless God does not put this desire in you you will not care about truth and also not seek truth and this means you also cannot attribute this to yourself and think how great you are because you're a truth seeker.
But then again you could ask what about those which simply do not have this desire from God? They do not seek the truth because God didn't give them the desire while he gave the desire to others and this sounds deterministic.
It'll simply stay a mystery how God handles all these things.

 

[J. Jump]

An example of what I was talking about would be true believers in a Catholic church (church in name only, as Jesus Christ is not taught in that denomination as THE way to salvation). The message was to the church at Laodicea, but it was a "church" in name only, with the majority within the church unbelievers. The knocking was to come back into the church, since the church had become disgusting, most likely made up primarily of gnostic unbelievers.

Again I don't think unbelievers is the context at all, but rather believers that found themselves in those conditions and Christ as you say was wanting back into the church, but the invitation was not going to be received by the church, but by individuals.

A great truth we could learn today as the state of the church is in the condition that exists and Christ is wanting back in, but it's only individual believers that are going to allow Him in, not the church as a whole.

Now you may have a collection of individuals that have invited Him into their lives that are gathering and making a local church, but as a whole the conditions are not good for Christendom at large.

 

[webdog]

Again I don't think unbelievers is the context at all, but rather believers that found themselves in those conditions and Christ as you say was wanting back into the church, but the invitation was not going to be received by the church, but by individuals.

First individual make up the church. Second, if the church is Christ's bride, there is no need for Christ to knock. 3:20 shows Christ on the OUTSIDE of the church. Church, by definition, has Christ automatically on the INSIDE, not outside. Therefore, this church was a church in name only.

What would happen if a regular old SBC church began to let false teaching inside. Over time, the true beleivers would leave the church because they would not agree with what is being taught, and more converts to the false religion would be added. Say, it's 10 years later. All but maybe a few Christians have left the church, and the congregation now consists of mostly non believers. This church teaches everything but faith in Christ for salvation including almost gnostic, cultic things. Would you call this church a true "church", and Christ only needing to reconcile fellowship? I would hope not! This is what happened at Laodicea. Don't discount the verses prior to verse 20 as they tell the true story about this "church".

 

[Hope of Glory]

There are churches today that teach that salvation is by believing on Jesus, then they add works such as baptism, enduring, etc. to the requirements. Although they have false teachings, they are still teaching the message of salvation.

For that matter, you can find salvation in the NWT.

Churches can be full of all sorts of false teachings and still teach the truth about salvation.

He is standing and knocking, and if any one (individual) shall open the door, he will come in and have fellowship.

 

[webdog]

There are churches today that teach that salvation is by believing on Jesus, then they add works such as baptism, enduring, etc. to the requirements. Although they have false teachings, they are still teaching the message of salvation.

I agree 100%. There are churches, too, that do not teach this, and evencall themselves "churches", while they are are not true Churches (just look up some satanic "churches").

Churches can be full of all sorts of false teachings and still teach the truth about salvation.

Again, I agree, but there are churches full of false teachings that do not teach the truth about salvation. I believe Laodicea falls into this category based on Jesus asking them (as a whole) to "buy from Him" (salvation). These churches do not have Christ on the inside.

He is standing and knocking, and if any one (individual) shall open the door, he will come in and have fellowship.

Salvaion is an individual event, no? Church by definition is a group of individuals who have put their faith in Christ. There is no need to knock to come in to a believer, as He said "I will NEVER leave you nor forsake you". We are to seek Him for fellowship, to repair the broken relationship caused by our sin, not the other way around. When we are not in fellowhip God chastens us, sometimes HARD, but He doesn't stand by and just knock for fellowship to be restored.

 

[J. Jump]

to "buy from Him" (salvation).

See here is where your reasoning is flawed. Salvation is not something that is available for purchase. Salvation is a free gift that is given to all that will receive.

This is talking about profit, clothing and understanding. These things all must be purchased from Christ and they come by works. And they all have to do with faithfulness.

It goes back to beeing seen at the judgment seat where we will be deamed worthy/unworthy, faithful/unfaithful, overcomers/being overcome, etc.

It has to do with works and works have to do with whether we qualify to have a part in the 1,000-year kingdom. It has nothing to do with eternity per se.

 

[webdog]

See here is where your reasoning is flawed. Salvation is not something that is available for purchase. Salvation is a free gift that is given to all that will receive.

This is talking about profit, clothing and understanding. These things all must be purchased from Christ and they come by works. And they all have to do with faithfulness.

It goes back to beeing seen at the judgment seat where we will be deamed worthy/unworthy, faithful/unfaithful, overcomers/being overcome, etc.

It has to do with works and works have to do with whether we qualify to have a part in the 1,000-year kingdom. It has nothing to do with eternity per se.

Christ used hyperbole quite often, as was the case here, so my understanding is not flawed. You don't think Christ knows that salvation can't be bought? What do you think He was saying in verses 17 and 18 and especially verse 21 that pertains to fellowship?