Is Baptism essential for salvation

[2 Tim. 2:15]

Hello, Please try to base all answers on Bible scriptures. Opinions or interpretations of the scripture are accepted.

 

[Amy.G]

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; [it is] the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.


Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.


Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.


Water baptism does not save you. Only the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

 

[DHK]

Hello, Please try to base all answers on Bible scriptures. Opinions or interpretations of the scripture are accepted.

Paul didn't think so:

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

 

[2 Tim. 2:15]

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; [it is] the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

This scripture says "By grace you have been saved through faith,"
Grace is by definition "the freely given and unmerited favor and love of God"
It sounds to me like the scripture is saying that by grace (this undeserved favor) you are saved through faith. As pertaining to the not of works part Paul was speaking of the grace, saying grace is not of works. Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Faith-(faithful from the Hebrew word aman in the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance 539) to build up or support; to foster as a parent or nurse; to render or be firm or faithful, to trust or believe, to be permanent or quiet; to be true or certain; to go to the right hand-hence assurance, bring up, establish.

James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Mark 12:27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

It doesn't say we are saved by grace, it says we are saved through faith and faith without works is dead, therefore if you have no works God is not your God.

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Agreed and very true but my question wasn't whether or not baptism was the only means of salvation. There are many things that we must do in order to be saved and this particular scripture states a couple.

Water baptism does not save you. Only the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

 

[2 Tim. 2:15]

Sorry about the multiple posts remember I'm new to the forum

 

[DHK]

Sorry about the multiple posts remember I'm new to the forum

Welcome to BB 2Tim. 2:15. I deleted your duplicate posts for you. Hope you enjoy your stay.

 

[2 Tim. 2:15]

Paul didn't think so:

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

How is that saying Paul doesn't think baptism is essential to salvation? According to what's written Jesus didn't send Paul like he sent the other apostles. Paul still baptized though.

(The Lord speaking to Ananais concerning Paul)
Acts 9: 15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

(Jesus send the other apostles)
Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Or were you saying that Paul didn't think opinion or interpretations are accepted?

 

[TCGreek]

Paul presents Abraham as the model of how people are saved, whether in the OT, NT or today (Romans 4).

You can't miss it!

 

[DHK]

How is that saying Paul doesn't think baptism is essential to salvation? According to what's written Jesus didn't send Paul like he sent the other apostles. Paul still baptized though.

(The Lord speaking to Ananais concerning Paul)
Acts 9: 15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

(Jesus send the other apostles)
Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Or were you saying that Paul didn't think opinion or interpretations are accepted?

God callled Paul to preach the gospel which Paul said did not include baptism. Obviously baptism is not essentially to salvation. Paul said so. God called him to preach the gospel, not to baptize. Thus baptism is not part of the gospel; how could it be. Many were saved under his ministry; all of them without being baptized.

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Christ sent me not to baptize.
Christ sent me to preach the gospel.
Therefore the gospel does not and cannot include baptism. It never did.

 

[2 Tim. 2:15]

Paul presents Abraham as the model of how people are saved, whether in the OT, NT or today (Romans 4).

You can't miss it!

Yes he does and that method is by faith.

Romans 4 is a continuation of the point Paul is making in chapt 3. Seems to me He is explaining that a man is not saved by the law (OT law) neither by circumcision which was by the law nor by simply being the seed of Abraham. I think he is saying by grace which is not of works but rather the gift of God unto all men who share in the faith, salvation is given through the faith ( the same faith which Abraham had. His faith was counted as righteousness before the law came). Paul is relating Abraham's faith to the faith of the church at Rome which consists of gentiles who were not of the circumcision and didn't keep the law, yet they had faith and their faith was counted for righteousness because without the law they showed the work of the law written in their hearts (Rom 2:14-15).

 

[TCGreek]

Yes he does and that method is by faith.

Romans 4 is a continuation of the point Paul is making in chapt 3. Seems to me He is explaining that a man is not saved by the law (OT law) neither by circumcision which was by the law nor by simply being the seed of Abraham. I think he is saying by grace which is not of works but rather the gift of God unto all men who share in the faith, salvation is given through the faith ( the same faith which Abraham had. His faith was counted as righteousness before the law came). Paul is relating Abraham's faith to the faith of the church at Rome which consists of gentiles who were not of the circumcision and didn't keep the law, yet they had faith and their faith was counted for righteousness because without the law they showed the work of the law written in their hearts (Rom 2:14-15).

Correct, and the only ceremony that was before him was circumcision and came after his faith as a seal of an existing faith (Rom 4:9-12).

Baptism is our "circumcision" and must come after our saving faith in Jesus Christ. That is what I see in Scripture.

 

[2 Tim. 2:15]

God callled Paul to preach the gospel which Paul said did not include baptism.

Paul didn't say the gospel he preached didn't include baptism, he said Christ didn't send him to baptize, but he sent him to preach the gospel.

Obviously baptism is not essentially to salvation. Paul said so. God called him to preach the gospel, not to baptize. Thus baptism is not part of the gospel; how could it be. Many were saved under his ministry; all of them without being baptized.

How do you know all the people Paul preached to were not baptized and how do you know they were all saved? There were other apostles baptizing and Paul himself also baptized: 1 Corinthians 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;

Therefore the gospel does not and cannot include baptism. It never did.

Gospel- the teachings of Jesus Christ and the apostles. a doctrine regarded as of prime importance: Glad tidings, esp. concerning salvation and the kingdom of God as announced to the world by Christ.

Romans 1:15
So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also............ According to the definition the gospel is what Paul the apostle taught, and there are scriptures which show him teaching baptism:

Romans 6:3
Collosians 2:11
1 Corinthians 12:13
Galatians 3:27

 

[2 Tim. 2:15]

Correct, and the only ceremony that was before him was circumcision and came after his faith as a seal of an existing faith (Rom 4:9-12).

Baptism is our "circumcision" and must come after our saving Faith in Jesus Christ. That is what I see in Scripture.

Yes sir you are right... Baptism is the circumcision made without hands in putting off the body of sins. This is the purpose of the circumcision under the new covenant, not as a sign of faith but to destroy the body of sins. Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. Also a person must have faith before they are baptized.

saving Faith- Faith alone does not save. Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

And-(used to connect grammatically coordinate words, phrases, or clauses) along or together with; as well as; in addition to; besides; also; moreover:

It clearly states that belief and baptism working together are essential to baptism. As you can see when they are separated (belief is taken out) then comes damnation.

 

[TCGreek]

Yes sir you are right... Baptism is the circumcision made without hands in putting off the body of sins. This is the purpose of the circumcision under the new covenant, not as a sign of faith but to destroy the body of sins. Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. Also a person must have faith before they are baptized.

saving Faith- Faith alone does not save. Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

And-(used to connect grammatically coordinate words, phrases, or clauses) along or together with; as well as; in addition to; besides; also; moreover:

It clearly states that belief and baptism working together are essential to baptism. As you can see when they are separated (belief is taken out) then comes damnation.

Then Abraham is not the model of those who would exercise saving faith.

 

[Linda64]

First of all, water baptism is NOT a replacement for circumcision. Circumcision came before the Law in Genesis 17 where God said to Abraham:

Genesis 17:10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

Genesis 17:11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

Genesis 17:12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

Genesis 17:13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

If in fact water baptism replaces circumcision, and only male babies are circumcised, what happens to the female babies? Circumcision was a token of the covenant between God and Abraham and Abraham's seed...and it is an everlasting covenant. It was not replaced by water baptism or infant baptism. In the N.T., circumcision is used as a symbol of the new birth (Col. 2:10-14).

Water baptism does NOT save....it is not required for salvation. It is a public testimony of the believer's identification with the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. (Romans 6:3-5) Baptism is a figure (1 Peter 3:21), a symbol, a picture. Baptism is not a part of salvation; it is symbolic of salvation. We are saved, not by water going over our bodies, but by faith in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Believer's baptism (immersion) is an ordinance of the church.

 

[2 Tim. 2:15]

First of all, water baptism is NOT a replacement for circumcision.

Can you please quote posts in your reply because I don't see where anyone said baptism is a replacement for circumcision.

Circumcision came before the Law in Genesis 17 where God said to Abraham:

Your right my mistake ...My apologies I'm kinda tired over here...

Water baptism does NOT save....it is not required for salvation.

Does salvation not include the forgiveness of our sins? Or can we remain in sin and still be saved? Can we appear before the Most Holy unclean? Did the high priest do it? Or did they have to wash and offer sacrifices for their sins daily (Hebrews 7:27
Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.)
Has God changed? Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
There's only one way I know to have my sins taken away and that is water baptism (Acts 2:38). Sounds essential to me.

It is a public testimony of the believer's identification with the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. (Romans 6:3-5) Baptism is a figure (1 Peter 3:21), a symbol, a picture. Baptism is not a part of salvation; it is symbolic of salvation. We are saved, not by water going over our bodies, but by faith in the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

testimony? Did it really sound to you like paul was describing baptism as a sign for the public to see? I'm sure Paul thought it to be an actual operation taking place under the water. Col 2: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.


1 Peter 2:21 doesn't prove your point at all. In that scripture he was correlating the two uses of water to wash away sin. When he says "The like figure (symbol; something used for or regarded as representing something else)" the first form was representing the latter. Besides, this scripture which you used directly contradicts one of your statements :

Baptism is not a part of salvation

because it says right there "even baptism doth also now save us."

Believer's baptism (immersion) is an ordinance of the church.

If by ordinance you mean "commandment" then yes it is because Jesus did command his apostles to baptize, but if you mean a "sacrament" I disagree.

 

[Darron Steele]

because it says right there "even baptism doth also now save us."...

Part of the problem with your handling of 1 Peter 3:21 is that you cut Peter off mid-sentence.

Read the rest of his sentence. He clarifies that he does not mean the water bath. He then clarifies what he means.

Gotta go. I will join this more later.

 

[Tom Butler]

I find this scripture passage to be revealing:

Acts 9:17, Ananias speaking to Saul: "Brother Saul...."
Acts 9:18 "......he received his sight forthwith, arose and was baptized."

Ananias called Saul "Brother," a fellow believer, before Saul was baptized.

 

[Zenas]

I find this scripture passage to be revealing:

Acts 9:17, Ananias speaking to Saul: "Brother Saul...."
Acts 9:18 "......he received his sight forthwith, arose and was baptized."

Ananias called Saul "Brother," a fellow believer, before Saul was baptized.

Tom, this is instructive but you can't just leave it there. You also have to deal with Acts 22:16, which in context says:

12"A certain Ananias, a man who was devout by the standard of the Law, and well spoken of by all the Jews who lived there,

13came to me, and standing near said to me, 'Brother Saul, receive your sight!' And at that very time I looked up at him.

14"And he said, 'The God of our fathers has appointed you to know His will and to see the Righteous One and to hear an utterance from His mouth.

15'For you will be a witness for Him to all men of what you have seen and heard.

16'Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.'

There are five N.T. passages that speak overtly and unequivocally about the saving effect of baptism and this is one of them.
Incidentally, the other four are John 3:5; Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38 and 1 Peter 3:21. There are others as well but they are not quite so "in your face" as these.

 

[Darron Steele]

Let me start out by saying that I am avid advocate that Christians get baptized. I believe Scripture teaches that Christians should be baptized and as close to pronto as doable. The question I am answering is not `Do Christians have to be baptized?' because the answer to that is yes. The question I am addressing is if baptism is possible without baptism.

Tom, this is instructive but you can't just leave it there. You also have to deal with Acts 22:16, which in context says: There are five N.T. passages that speak overtly and unequivocally about the saving effect of baptism and this is one of them.
Incidentally, the other four are John 3:5; Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38 and 1 Peter 3:21. There are others as well but they are not quite so "in your face" as these.

These four are "`in your face'" teaching that even believers will be unsaved if they fail to get themselves baptized.

Acts 22:16 -- is the "wash away thy sins" referring to baptism, or "calling on the name of the Lord"?

John 3:5 -- is that talking about baptism? It says "born of water and the Spirit" if I am not mistaken. Given how ancient Hebrew terminology described natural birth, and John 3:3-6, I have a problem believing this passage is talking about baptism.

Mark 16:16, assuming the authenticity of anything after Mark 16:8. "Mark 16:16" goes "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned" (NKJV). I am missing where it says that `he who believes but is not baptized will be condemned also.'

Acts 2:38 follows Acts 2:37, which asks "brethren, what shall we do" (ASV emphasis mine). Peter replied in Acts 2:38. I present his reply translated with more precision than English is capable of: "Arrependei-vos, e cada um de vós seja batizado em nome de Jesus Cristo, para remissão de vossos pecados” (VRA). The word order parallels English, but the grammatical structure points us to `Repent for the remission of sins' and embedded in that is a directive to respond to this repentance by getting themselves baptized. What I do not see is a statement of the following nature: `Away from here and now, people who fail to get baptized will not have their sins taken away.'

1 Peter 3:21, in reference to water, when Peter is not cut off mid-sentence: "Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you-- not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (NASB). Peter made it clear that the bath in water does not save us. He made it clear that the "appeal to God for a good conscience" is what saves us.

Peter never contradicted himself, nor would he contradict the teachings of Jesus Christ. The passages that follow ARE "in your face."

John 3:16-8

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God sent not the Son into the world to |condemn| the world; but that the world should be saved through him. |Whoever| believeth on him is not |condemned|: he that believeth not hath been |condemned| already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only begotten Son of God” (ASV with |TNIV|).​

The passage expressly says "he that believeth on him is not condemned."

Peter echoed this teaching of Jesus Christ at Acts 10:43 “everyone that believeth on him shall receive remission of sins” (ASV).

These are universal statements and explicit statements. No person who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ will be condemned. Every person who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ will "receive remission of sins." This includes those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, yet by some mistake or some misfortune were not baptized.