Is Discipline Punishment?

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

I have always been under the impression that discipline may not always be strictly thought of as punishment, but often incorporates the notion of punishment. For instance, discipline may just be the forced integration of certain behavior patterns designed to enhance good attributes or behavior. On the other hand, discipline may in fact incorporate direct punishment to reinforce ones attention to details either overlooked voluntarily or sometimes involuntarily. At any means, correct and wise discipline, whether in the form of direction, instruction, or punishment, is always carried out with the intent of changing or fortifying proper behavior before evil consequences can have an evil or detrimental effect that cannot or will not be overcome in the lives of the individuals themselves and others under their influence.

What do you think?

 

[DQuixote]

You make my point rather well. In asking the question,

Is discipline punishment?

you lay not the criterion for discussion, but require that "the other" reveal his or her position before the discussion can begin.

You, in fact, have your position already in mind. You've carefully thought it over; you've assembled your arguments. Rather than launching legitimate inquiry, you are creating circumstances wherein you can pounce and PRO-nounce your point of view, leaving the rest of us (or me) staggering beneath your level of expertise. We're the little yellow smiley, you're the red intellectual bricks falling on our helpless heads. Rather than learning, we exit, stage left, bloodly and bowed. At least, that's your plan.........

If you, on the other hand, should state thusly:

Discipline is punishment,

then we instantly recognize the criterion, and we can (or I can) artfully respond.

Interestingly enough, this suggested "out in the open" approach applies primarily to you and two others --- maybe three. The rest on the BB appear to have a real interest in biblical insight and understanding.

In conclusion, will you now consider stating your case, rather than asking the question? We'll do our best to be ready.

:saint:

 

[Amy.G]

You make my point rather well. In asking the question,

Is discipline punishment?

you lay not the criterion for discussion, but require that "the other" reveal his or her position before the discussion can begin.

You, in fact, have your position already in mind. You've carefully thought it over; you've assembled your arguments. Rather than launching legitimate inquiry, you are creating circumstances wherein you can pounce and PRO-nounce your point of view, leaving the rest of us (or me) staggering beneath your level of expertise. We're the little yellow smiley, you're the red intellectual bricks falling on our helpless heads. Rather than learning, we exit, stage left, bloodly and bowed. At least, that's your plan.........

If you, on the other hand, should state thusly:

Discipline is punishment,

then we instantly recognize the criterion, and we can (or I can) artfully respond.

Interestingly enough, this suggested "out in the open" approach applies primarily to you and two others --- maybe three. The rest on the BB appear to have a real interest in biblical insight and understanding.

In conclusion, will you now consider stating your case, rather than asking the question? We'll do our best to be ready.

:saint:

Thanks DQ, I thought I was the only one who felt this way.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Well, once again Rush seems to be proven right. As I recall he was explaining one day something to the effect that if a man is indecisive, unprepared, and unwilling to take a stand and lead, he often takes little flack. On the other hand, let a man prepare himself, have an agenda, be bold enough to establish and articulate his ideas, dare to take sides on the issues, look out. He will find himself in the center of the fray.


Oh well, it goes with the territory.

Moving right along with the discussion, now that we got that out of the way, are there an others on the list that might desire to facilitate the reason for this portion of this list and enter into reasonable discussion and debate on the OP?

 

[Scarlett O.]

I've got a couple of trains of thought, HP, on what the two words mean in relationship to each other.

Right now, however, I have got to go to bed. :sleeping_2: I can barely keep my eyes open. :sleep:

I'll jump in the discussion after church tomorrow. :wavey:

 

[Scarlett O.]

I have always thought of discipline and punishment as two separate issues. But then again, I think as an educator. I know that you are trying to spark a discussion from a different standpoint. So I decided to look up the etymology of the words. Here's what I found on the Merriam-Webster online dictionary.

• Discipline - from the Latin "disciplina" meaning teaching and learning and from the Latin "discipulus" meaning pupil. Note that the word disciple has the same root - "discipulus"
• Punishment - from the Latin "punire" and from the Latin "poena" meaning penalty

I find that these roots coincide with my interpretation of the two words.

Here's my thinking and my opinion.

Discipline, being instruction, is proactive. Pertaining to the christian, it's the instruction of God's Word imparted to us from preachers, bible teachers, parents, Godly laymen and laywomen, and our own personal pursuit of God and His standard of living in the form of prayer, praise/worship, obedience, bible reading, boldly seeking the way of escape God promises us, and submitting to His authority.

God disciplines us by giving us His Word to read and obey.
Jesus disciplined us while on this earth by being our example for the standard of living and fulfilling the law of God.
The Holy Spirit disciplines us by convicting us of our sin.

Discipline may forewarn of penalties, but does not penalize in itself. It may guide the christian away from sin, but does not protect from the consequences of sin. Discipline may be rigorous and feel like spiritual
"boot camp", but it is not punitive. Discipline may introduce principles for obedience, but it does not promote legalism.

I feel that for myself and I am sure for many other christians, we bear too many consequences of sin and too many penalties of sin because we have not approached our christian walk in a proactive or disciplined manner.

Punishment, on the other hand, is reactive in nature. Pertaining to the christian, its primary penalty is death. All of humanity will physically die because all have sinned and come short of the glory of God and the wages of sin is death. Punishment, for the christian, can also include bearing the natural consequences of specific sins. We cannot smoke, overeat/eat the wrong foods, refuse to forgive others, neglect our bible reading, live self-centeredly, or mock those less fortunate than us by ignoring them or considering them unworthy and expect to bear no consequences.

Punishment may remind one of missed opportunity for discipline. In other words, punishment can be a teaching/learning experince all its own. Punishment, from God to the christian, is supposed to be a learning experience. It is supposed to turn His child back to Him. For the unbeliever, God's wrath in the form of punishment may not necessarily be tempered with lovingkindness. It may indeed include the finality of never knocking on their heart's door again.

So, to me, discipline and punishment are two different things.

Sometimes parents and teachers, just like the church, are way too focused on the punishment when discipline was never offered. That's not fair to children and it's not fair to the church.

But for the individual christian, God never punishes us without having offered His discipline first. If as christians, our bibles aren't read and our prayers aren't said and our praises aren't offered, it isn't because God hasn't and isn't calling us to do these things......it's because we are too lazy and self-centered to allow Him to discipline or instruct us. And we deserve whatever penalty that God, in His loving chastisement of us, deems fit for us.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Thank you Scarlett for your input. There is a lot in your post that I am still mulling over and will be for some time for sure. You always have a lot to offer.

I might in the meantime interject just a thought about this issue that comes to mind. Much on the list has been said to equate our relationship with God to be of like manner with that to our earthly father. As you might know, I generally take exception to that for many reasons. Just the same, I know what it is to receive discipline in the form of punishment from my earthly father. Is it not within the realm of possibilities for God to punish even a believer while on this earth when disciplining them? I suppose what I am asking is, does there always have to be that clear demarcation as definitions sometimes insinuate between things such as punishment and discipline, when in reality little if any real distinction can be reasonably made in some cases?

Still thinking.

 

[DQuixote]

Sometimes parents and teachers, just like the church, are way too focused on the punishment when discipline was never offered. That's not fair to children and it's not fair to the church.

Amen!





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