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Is God the author of sin ?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by timdabap, Apr 3, 2022.

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  1. timdabap

    timdabap Member

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    I know, I know...y'all seened, er, seen that before.
    But no matter what route I take, the conclusion I come to is that is what double predestinarians {be they full-fledged or half-bred Calvinists or something else) are saying.
    I am having an exciting and stimulating conversation with somebody somewhere else.
    Sharpening iron with iron and all that jazz and cha-cha.
    But with all my sharpening for the past so many years everywhere, it seems instead of being sharp as a katana, I have become duller than a discarded Viking axe.
    I was wondering if perhaps here at ye olde Baptist Board, it will be different.
    And since this is the Calvinist-Arminian forum, I do not have to explain what double predestination is, right ?
     
    #1 timdabap, Apr 3, 2022
  2. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Don't know about all that double predestination jazz, IMO God provoked Satan to jealousy by inserting man into the garden, thus the subsequent fall of man. I believe that Satan's temptation of Eve was his own fall.
     
    #2 kyredneck, Apr 3, 2022
  3. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    I am unsure how God casting sinners, who were born in sin and died in sin, makes God the author of sin.
    The outcome of Adam breaking covenant with God was the curse.
    God has ordained that his means of procreation would still function after Adam broke covenant. Should God have stopped what he created from functioning? That would be the only way people didn't inherit the curse of being born in sin.
    Is God unjust to condemn law breakers according to his holiness? If not, then "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." This is your verse for predestination to hell. (That's the first predestination.)
    "But God, even when we were dead in our sins, made us alive with Christ. For by grace you are saved." This is your verse for predestination to heaven. (That's the second predestination.)

    Nowhere do we find God being the author of sin. We do, however, find Jesus being the author of faith (Hebrews 12:2). We were dead in sin. God chose to make us alive. Jesus authored our faith.

    But, nowhere in scripture is God ever shown to be the author of sin. Those who propose such a heathen thought have a poor understanding of God's holiness and human wretchedness. Somehow they imagine humans aren't corrupt and don't deserve hell. How they imagine this is beyond me since the Bible is very clear on the matter.
     
    #3 AustinC, Apr 3, 2022
  4. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    I do not believe God is the author of sin.
    I also do not believe man is the author of sin. I do believe Adam because of lust brought sin into the world (Kosmos).

    I believe sin existed before the man was created for I believe the devil who was a sinner from the beginning, did sin before man was created.

    I believe the, of flesh man, was created out of the dust of the ground, with the spirit of the breath of lives, breathed into his nostrils, into his lungs, into the blood of him, making him soul, living, for the purpose of bringing the sin and the death into the world, in order for God to destroy, the devil, Satan, and his works.

    Before the foundation of the world, redemption from death through the blood of Christ, that is through the death of Christ, without blemish and without spot, was the plan.

    It is through that death the devil is destroyed and his works are destroyed Heb 2:14

    What is man (Singular), that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man (Singular), that thou visitest him?

    In reality these are the only two men that matter.
     
    #4 percho, Apr 3, 2022
  5. timdabap

    timdabap Member

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    The crux of DOUBLE PREDESTINATION is :did God, simply for the purpose of Sovereignty, create and design the fall of man, in Adam, so He can show mercy afterwards to His elect ?

    Because when we simplify things, remove the wrappings and the ribbons of "scholarly", "doctoral" language, and speak as common men, (as they say in the movies, "speak English") that seems to be the bottom line, that God created sinners just for the sole purpose of His glory, and if that is so (to my mind), then He LIED from the get-go when He said, after creating Adam, "it was very good" (Genesis 1:31 kjv), called evil (sin) good after pronouncing woe to those who do so (Isaiah 5:20 kjv) and taught Himself as a God that cannot lie (Titus 1:2; Numbers 23:19, Hebrews 6:18, all kjv).

    All the guys professing belief in double-predestination have to throw at me are verses along the lines of Romans 9:20-23 to wit:

    Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

    Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

    What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

    And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

    (How do you write a blockquote in BB code ?)
     
    #5 timdabap, Apr 3, 2022
  6. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Yes God is the author of sin but not the doer of sin. Gods purpose is the reason why sin came into being in His world, to serve His eternal purpose in Christ Jesus. Eph 3:11

    11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

    Sin coming into this world was no accident, it was purposed by God.
     
    #6 Brightfame52, Apr 10, 2022
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