is it true Historically In Church Age NO Sign Gifts Operated Until 20th Century?

[DHK]

can we ONLY allow for some of them to be still in operation though today?
will still say revelatory aspect not for now, but that they were used by God for more then that in early Church, so still see no reason when used in those fashion ways not for today...

If their operating brings glory to God and Jesus, and they are according to Biblical order and principles, why wouldn't the Holy Spirit be involved in that?

KNOW there is just amn made emotionalism, and sayanic counterfeiting, but wouldn't a counterfeit mean there werre real deal going on also?

God spoke to Moses through a burning bush. I suppose that would bring glory to God too. But God doesn't do that any more.

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; (Hebrews 1:1-2)

In times past (mostly OT) God spoke in different manners (dreams, visions, spoke audibly, theophanies, etc.). But he doesn't do that any more.
Verse two says that in these last days he speaks to us by his Son. His Son is revealed to us in His Word. Everything that we need to know about God and His Son, Jesus Christ is revealed to us in the Scriptures. There is no need to look anywhere else. We have a closed canon.

 

[JesusFan]

God spoke to Moses through a burning bush. I suppose that would bring glory to God too. But God doesn't do that any more.

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; (Hebrews 1:1-2)

In times past (mostly OT) God spoke in different manners (dreams, visions, spoke audibly, theophanies, etc.). But he doesn't do that any more.
Verse two says that in these last days he speaks to us by his Son. His Son is revealed to us in His Word. Everything that we need to know about God and His Son, Jesus Christ is revealed to us in the Scriptures. There is no need to look anywhere else. We have a closed canon.

So you are saying here that the Holy Spirit will not be permitted to do ANYTHING today apart from the Bible?
that He has decided to "mute" Himself?

I am NOT asking to have us get"extra biblical" revelations here...
Just is it at least possible from the scriptures to prove that it is NOT necisary to say that God does NOTHING today apart from his Word in life of His people?

 

[preacher4truth]

So you are saying here that the Holy Spirit will not be permitted to do ANYTHING today apart from the Bible?
that He has decided to "mute" Himself?

I am NOT asking to have us get"extra biblical" revelations here...
Just is it at least possible from the scriptures to prove that it is NOT necisary to say that God does NOTHING today apart from his Word in life of His people?

I know of reports of BAPTIST missionaries who didn't believe this could happen, then all of a sudden someone heard them speak in their own native language when they preached, and the hearer testified and got saved.

 

[DHK]

So you are saying here that the Holy Spirit will not be permitted to do ANYTHING today apart from the Bible?
that He has decided to "mute" Himself?

I am NOT asking to have us get"extra biblical" revelations here...
Just is it at least possible from the scriptures to prove that it is NOT necisary to say that God does NOTHING today apart from his Word in life of His people?

Can God create a rock bigger than he can lift?

God does not do anything that is contrary to his Word or his nature. This we know to be true. For example (against the claims of many Charismatics), Pentecost was a one time event never again to be repeated. God is not going to repeat that event no matter how fervently the Charismatics look for those exact signs.

 

[JesusFan]

I know of reports of BAPTIST missionaries who didn't believe this could happen, then all of a sudden someone heard them speak in their own native language when they preached, and the hearer testified and got saved.

Which would fit into where the Bible said signs/wonders were worked through Apostles to confirm the Gospel message and Jesus...

Why can't the Lord use them to reveal that Jesus indeed is the Messiah, the Lord, then have Bible used to preach Jesus?

 

[DHK]

I know of reports of BAPTIST missionaries who didn't believe this could happen, then all of a sudden someone heard them speak in their own native language when they preached, and the hearer testified and got saved.

Mostly anecdotal and undocumented. Even given the benefit of the doubt it doesn't mean the gift is for today. If the gift was for today it wouldn't be found in an unheard of isolated event. It would be common in most Scriptural churches today. But it is not. It is unheard of.

 

[preacher4truth]

Which would fit into where the Bible said signs/wonders were worked through Apostles to confirm the Gospel message and Jesus...

Why can't the Lord use them to reveal that Jesus indeed is the Messiah, the Lord, then have Bible used to preach Jesus?

It can happen. It's an exception, for sure. I don't know of any Scriptures that definitively prove that it cannot happen. Or that specifically biblical tongues can never happen again.

 

[preacher4truth]

Mostly anecdotal and undocumented. Even given the benefit of the doubt it doesn't mean the gift is for today. If the gift was for today it wouldn't be found in an unheard of isolated event. It would be common in most Scriptural churches today. But it is not. It is unheard of.

That would be your opinion. I tend to respectfully disagree with you. There was no reason for these IFB against tongues missionaries to lie, nor for the one saved to drum this up.

 

[DHK]

It can happen. It's an exception, for sure. I don't know of any Scriptures that definitively prove that it cannot happen. Or that specifically biblical tongues can never happen again.

Let's not limit God. Anything can happen. He can change the makeup of the moon into green cheese if he wants to. But the facts are he hasn't and he won't. And the fact is that the gifts have ceased. They are not for today. Stop your wishful thinking. If they were for today they would be common today, but they are not. You are butting your head against a brick wall!
:BangHead::BangHead::BangHead:

 

[DHK]

That would be your opinion. I tend to respectfully disagree with you. There was no reason for these IFB against tongues missionaries to lie, nor for the one saved to drum this up.

Where is the evidence that Biblical gift of languages is manifested today?
Your church? Neighboring churches? churches of the members of the BB? my church? No. It is not prevalent at all. It is nonexistent. The gift has ceased.

 

[JesusFan]

Mostly anecdotal and undocumented. Even given the benefit of the doubt it doesn't mean the gift is for today. If the gift was for today it wouldn't be found in an unheard of isolated event. It would be common in most Scriptural churches today. But it is not. It is unheard of.

Are you saying God cannot do that today?

The Bible clearly sees signs/wonders confirm the message of the Apostles concerning jesus, why wouldn't He do the same for same reason in areas "Virgin" to the Gospel message?

 

[preacher4truth]

Let's not limit God. Anything can happen. He can change the makeup of the moon into green cheese if he wants to. But the facts are he hasn't and he won't. And the fact is that the gifts have ceased. They are not for today. Stop your wishful thinking. If they were for today they would be common today, but they are not. You are butting your head against a brick wall!

What exactly is "green cheese?" The moon looks white to me, more akin to munster, perhaps provolone. Maybe it's moonzarella!!!!! :laugh:

Where is your proof text for tongues have definitely ceased once and all forever, and that they are not for today, and that says if they were for today it would be then common?

You really shouldn't bang your head against a wall.

 

[DHK]

What exactly is "green cheese?" The moon looks white to me, more akin to munster, perhaps provolone. Maybe it's moonzarella!!!!! :laugh:

Where is your proof text for tongues have definitely ceased once and all forever, and that they are not for today, and that says if they were for today it would be then common?

You really shouldn't bang your head against a wall.

Study 1Cor.12-14. Not one proof-text, but three chapters.

 

[DHK]

Are you saying God cannot do that today?

The Bible clearly sees signs/wonders confirm the message of the Apostles concerning jesus, why wouldn't He do the same for same reason in areas "Virgin" to the Gospel message?

Because we have a closed canon.
Because God has commanded man to take that gospel to the ends of the earth.
Because God does not have a plan B.

 

[preacher4truth]

Study 1Cor.12-14. Not one proof-text, but three chapters.

Can you break it down in segments, where to you, it proves all you've said? I'm very familiar with those passages.

 

[DHK]

Can you break it down in segments, where to you, it proves all you've said? I'm very familiar with those passages.

This is the method that God uses today:

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. (Romans 1:16)

 

[preacher4truth]

This is the method that God uses today:

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. (Romans 1:16)

What is the Gospel?

I also would ask again for your outline on 1 Cor. 12-14 detailing what you've taught concerning tongues.

 

[JesusFan]

This is the method that God uses today:

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. (Romans 1:16)

Well....

Are you saying that the Lord will no longer be involved in confirming the validity of The Gospel in areas where there has been no active witness before?

He did confirm it by signs/wonders to prove in in early Church, why not today to confirm and establish it?

After that is done, then can go ONLY into the Bible as the way God would operate in their midst going forward!

 

[DHK]

Well....

Are you saying that the Lord will no longer be involved in confirming the validity of The Gospel in areas where there has been no active witness before?

He did confirm it by signs/wonders to prove in in early Church, why not today to confirm and establish it?

After that is done, then can go ONLY into the Bible as the way God would operate in their midst going forward!

1. They were signs to confirm the gospel was the message of the Apostles, and that the Apostles were messengers of God with a message of God.
2. The Bible was not yet complete; today the Bible is complete.
3. They were signs to the unbelieving Jews (1Cor.14:21,22). If the Jews would not accept and believe these signs judgment would come. They rejected these signs, refused the gospel, and judgment came in 70 A.D.
4. The Day of Pentecost will never be repeated (the first manifestation of tongues).
5. Paul says in 1Cor.13:8 that they would cease. When? When the canon of Scripture was complete--at the end of the first century. History indicates that the gifts were no longer in use after that.

 

[DHK]

What is the Gospel?
Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: (1 Corinthians 15:1-4)

This is the gospel.