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Is lying ever good?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by webdog, Apr 10, 2007.

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  1. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    In my reading today (2 Kings 10), and throughout the first part of the OT (David and Jonathan in the field, etc.), I'm sensing there are times when lying is not only justified, but encouraged. Case in point:

    2Ki 10:16 Then he said, "Come with me and see my zeal for the LORD!" So he let him ride with him in his chariot.
    2Ki 10:17 When Jehu came to Samaria, he struck down all who remained from the house of Ahab in Samaria until he had annihilated his house, according to the word of the LORD spoken to Elijah.
    2Ki 10:18 Then Jehu brought all the people together and said to them, "Ahab served Baal a little, but Jehu will serve him a lot.
    2Ki 10:19 Now, therefore, summon to me all the prophets of Baal, all his servants, and all his priests. None must be missing, for I have a great sacrifice for Baal. Whoever is missing will not live." However, Jehu was acting deceptively in order to destroy the servants of Baal.


    2Ki 10:29 but he did not turn away from the sins that Jeroboam son of Nebat had caused Israel to commit--worshiping the golden calves that were in Bethel and Dan.
    2Ki 10:30 Nevertheless, the LORD said to Jehu, "Because you have done well in carrying out what is right in My sight and have done to the house of Ahab all that was in My heart, four generations of your sons will sit on the throne of Israel."

    We see Jehu using dishonesty to carry out the Lord's will...and the Lord being pleased with it.
    Why is that, and how does this translate to us today? Is it permissible to be dishonest in any given situation, depending on what it is?
     
    #1 webdog, Apr 10, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 10, 2007
  2. His Blood Spoke My Name

    His Blood Spoke My Name New Member

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    The killing of the servants of Baal was what was good in God's sight, not the lying. Lying is never good.

    Thou shalt not bear false witness.
     
    #2 His Blood Spoke My Name, Apr 10, 2007
  3. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Lying played a part in carrying out the Lords will, though. It can't be separated from the entire act.
     
    #3 webdog, Apr 10, 2007
  4. His Blood Spoke My Name

    His Blood Spoke My Name New Member

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    God said 'Thou shalt not bear false witness'. He is not going to command His people to lie and then be pleased when they disobey Him and lie anyway
     
    #4 His Blood Spoke My Name, Apr 10, 2007
  5. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    "Thou shalt not kill"

    How about that?
     
    #5 StefanM, Apr 10, 2007
  6. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    Lying is not to be our way of life.
    Our Christian testimony is at stake.
    ...but there seems to be some exceptions.

    There are other examples in the Bible where a lie was effectively used in God’s plan.

    Rob
     
    #6 Deacon, Apr 10, 2007
  7. His Blood Spoke My Name

    His Blood Spoke My Name New Member

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    Sure...

    And while you are at it, why don't you go ahead and commit adultery in the name of the Lord? or covet that which belongs to your neighbor in the name of the Lord.

    surely God did not mean it when He gave those commandments...
     
    #7 His Blood Spoke My Name, Apr 10, 2007
  8. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    You left of "...against your neighbor."

    How does that play into this discussion? Who's considered a "neighbor"...and is false witness OK in other circumstances?

    I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I'm just curious. I have heard even "white lies" are sinful, and here what I see Jehu doing is a lot more than a white lie.
     
    #8 webdog, Apr 10, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 10, 2007
  9. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Thanks. I've seen that more and more as I'm going through the OT. I have always believed and been taught as HBSMN has alluded to, but now I"m not so sure that every "lie" is wrong, but given the intentions behind the lie. If someone broke into my home, came across only me and asked if there was anyone else in the house, I would say "no" to protect my wife and son. While this is clearly a lie, I don't see how it's counted as sin, and parallels similar incidents found in Scripture.
     
    #9 webdog, Apr 10, 2007
  10. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    Lying seems to be much like killing in Scripture.

    One should, in general, not kill or lie.

    However, there are instances in which killing or lying may be acceptable.
     
    #10 StefanM, Apr 10, 2007
  11. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    Remember, God holds us accountable for our words and actions.
    Telling the truth is not a sin.

    Rob
     
    #11 Deacon, Apr 10, 2007
  12. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    I agree, that's why I mentioned circumstances play a role.
    Would it have been in the Scripture that you provided in this thread?
     
    #12 webdog, Apr 10, 2007
  13. DeeJay

    DeeJay New Member

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    Who would recomend to the employes of the CIA and other goverment inteligence agencies that they never lie.

    How about police agencies. It would go something like this.

    Criminal: How did you know my car was full of drugs?

    Officer: Well Joe Blow ratted you off, he told us you had drugs and were selling them.

    If you were the officer would you lie?
     
    #13 DeeJay, Apr 10, 2007
  14. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    What is "false witness"?

    Also, don't forget that the Lord told David to lie. When David said, "I can't go up there, he'll kill me." The Lord said, "Just tell 'em that you came to worship."

    Also, David lied to get Goliath's sword. (OK, it was more an obfuscation than a lie; he had been anointed king, so in that sense, he was king, but he had not ascended the throne.)

    Also, the commandment is not to murder.

    The Lord tells people to kill plenty of times.
     
    #14 Hope of Glory, Apr 10, 2007
  15. His Blood Spoke My Name

    His Blood Spoke My Name New Member

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    God did not tell David to lie.

    If you read all of that passage God told Samuel to take an heifer with him. God wanted a sacrifice there. So God did not tell David to lie.
     
    #15 His Blood Spoke My Name, Apr 10, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 10, 2007
  16. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Please provide Scripture.
     
    #16 webdog, Apr 10, 2007
  17. johnp.

    johnp. New Member

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    2KI 6:18 As the enemy came down toward him, Elisha prayed to the LORD, "Strike these people with blindness." So he struck them with blindness, as Elisha had asked.
    2KI 6:19 Elisha told them, "This is not the road and this is not the city. Follow me, and I will lead you to the man you are looking for." And he led them to Samaria.

    That was the road and that was the city and the man they wanted. :) Good passage to remember in times of tribulation.

    God made the lie successful for Elisha.

    john.
     
    #17 johnp., Apr 10, 2007
  18. His Blood Spoke My Name

    His Blood Spoke My Name New Member

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    God did not tell Elisha to lie.
     
    #18 His Blood Spoke My Name, Apr 10, 2007
  19. His Blood Spoke My Name

    His Blood Spoke My Name New Member

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    1 Samuel 16:1-7 Samuel 16:1 And the LORD said unto Samuel, How long wilt thou mourn for Saul, seeing I have rejected him from reigning over Israel? fill thine horn with oil, and go, I will send thee to Jesse the Bethlehemite: for I have provided me a king among his sons. 2 And Samuel said, How can I go? if Saul hear it, he will kill me. And the LORD said, Take an heifer with thee, and say, I am come to sacrifice to the LORD. 3 And call Jesse to the sacrifice, and I will shew thee what thou shalt do: and thou shalt anoint unto me him whom I name unto thee. 4 And Samuel did that which the LORD spake, and came to Bethlehem. And the elders of the town trembled at his coming, and said, Comest thou peaceably? 5 And he said, Peaceably: I am come to sacrifice unto the LORD: sanctify yourselves, and come with me to the sacrifice. And he sanctified Jesse and his sons, and called them to the sacrifice. 6 And it came to pass, when they were come, that he looked on Eliab, and said, Surely the LORD'S anointed is before him. 7 But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.
     
    #19 His Blood Spoke My Name, Apr 10, 2007
  20. johnp.

    johnp. New Member

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    His Blood.

    No but it was God blinding those men that caused the lie to work. How do you deal with, 1KI 22:23 "So now the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The LORD has decreed disaster for you."

    And, 2 Thess 2:11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie

    john.
     
    #20 johnp., Apr 10, 2007
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