Is Modernism contrary to historical and biblical Christianity?

[Crabtownboy]

The word 'Post' means there was something before. In this case it was Modernism. Was/is Modernism contrary to Historical and Biblical Christianity?
If so, why?
If not, why not?

 

[dan e.]

The word 'Post' means there was something before. In this case it was Modernism. Was/is Modernism contrary to Historical and Biblical Christianity?
If so, why?
If not, why not?

I almost posted the exact same new thread.

I say no, although there were definitely some leaders involved who did great things for Christ. I'm thinking of J. Gresham Machen.

 

[Goldie]

The word 'Post' means there was something before.

Yep, that's correct - the something that was before was modernism. :laugh: or traditional/biblical Christianity.

To know what modernism vs post-modernism in Christianity means, take a look at the following website:

http://www.crossroad.to/charts/postmodernity-2.htm

 

[dan e.]

Yep, that's correct - the something that was before was modernism. :laugh: or traditional/biblical Christianity.

You can't be serious, can you?

So Christianity wasn't "biblical" until modernism?

 

[Goldie]

So Christianity wasn't "biblical" until modernism?

Um........... nooooooooooo that's not what I was trying to say - the question they asked is "something went before post-modern, and what was it", my reply was modernism - get it? POST-modernism????

So.............. like in post-natal........... what went before it? Natal??? Yes?

Cough......... hack............... splutter...............

Um......... try reading the link I posted to get a better view of what I was trying to say, eh? :BangHead:

 

[Marcia]

Some aspects of modernism are compatible with christianity, such as belief in objective truth. Of course, belief in objective truth is eroding now in evangelical Christianity.

I am not sure if modernism posits a view of absolutes, but if so, that would be compatible with Christianity.

Postmodernism reminds me a lot of the way I thought as a New Ager -- no absolutes, truth is relative and subjective, all religions have some validity, all people have their own truth, etc.

While modernism in some ways was bad for Christianity in that it denied the supernatural, postmodernism is just as bad, if not worse, imo.

And even if modernism was bad for Christianity, that does not make postmodermism okay. Another false dichotomy lurks there, as usual.

 

[dan e.]

While modernism in some ways was bad for Christianity in that it denied the supernatural, postmodernism is just as bad, if not worse, imo.

I don't think it is good to start with this type of thinging, this era, or that era is closer to Christianity than this era, or that era.

That is why we have the problems we do with entering into the 21st century, people approach it with, "this isn't as good, or as close to Christianity as my generation".

Bad approach, I think.

 

[Marcia]

I don't think it is good to start with this type of thinging, this era, or that era is closer to Christianity than this era, or that era.

That is why we have the problems we do with entering into the 21st century, people approach it with, "this isn't as good, or as close to Christianity as my generation".

Bad approach, I think.

I am just addressing the question and the topic! It' s not like this is my approach to everything!

However, I think we do need to recognize the issues of the postmodern culture and its influence or we will be stuck in the "Chrisitan ghetto" in our own little world. Ugh.

(and recognize any such influences in the church because they are there)

 

[preachinjesus]

I just think the question is wrong.

Christianity is transcendent of premodernism, modernism, and postmodernism.

Any of these three major philosophical constructs stands outside of Christianity. It isn't an friend, it isn't an enemy.

btw, Stan Grenz has some great stuff in his book Renewing the Center about the fallout and advancement from involvement in these varying philosophical paradigms.

 

[just-want-peace]

Being just a run-of-the-mill Christian I fail to grasp a lot of this "stuff'" that just muddies the theological waters - IMHO of course!

Why not simply take what His word states at face value, and let Him lead you from there?

Too much of this "stuff" come from those who have been educated beyond their intelligence.

MARANATHA!!!!!

 

[dan e.]

Why not simply take what His word states at face value, and let Him lead you from there?

because even this statement is the result of generational influences.

 

[Revmitchell]

Being just a run-of-the-mill Christian I fail to grasp a lot of this "stuff'" that just muddies the theological waters - IMHO of course!

Why not simply take what His word states at face value, and let Him lead you from there?

Too much of this "stuff" come from those who have been educated beyond their intelligence.

MARANATHA!!!!!

Scripture agrees with you:

1Co 2:1 And I, when I came to you, brothers, did not come proclaiming to you the testimony of God with lofty speech or wisdom.
1Co 2:2 For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.
1Co 2:3 And I was with you in weakness and in fear and much trembling,
1Co 2:4 and my speech and my message were not in plausible words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,
1Co 2:5 that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.

 

[tinytim]

I just think the question is wrong.

Christianity is transcendent of premodernism, modernism, and postmodernism.

Any of these three major philosophical constructs stands outside of Christianity. It isn't an friend, it isn't an enemy.

btw, Stan Grenz has some great stuff in his book Renewing the Center about the fallout and advancement from involvement in these varying philosophical paradigms.

Exactly... the church can and has operated in each cultural shift...
To declare that it doesn't denies the power of Christ.

This question and the other thread is about as unrelated to Christianity as this question:

Was the church biblical during the agricultural age, or the industrial age, or the electronic age?

The answer is yes...

Whether it is pre, mod, or postmod, the church is going to survive, and operate.

The message stays the same, but the churches that refuse to change the WAY they do church will die off.

Get used to being in a postmodern world... it will not change!
Not in our lifetimes.

We need to stop thinking like it was 1980, and start thinking in terms of today.

You can kick and scream all you awant about wanting the age of modernism to come back BUT IT AIN'T COMING BACK!

And churches that don't know how to reach postmods will die.

It would be like going to Bolivia and expect to do church the way we do in America... and then complaining because they don't do things our way.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Out of curiosity I checked the dictionary definition for "modernism" and found:

1. (initial capital letter) Theology. a. the movement in Roman Catholic thought that sought to interpret the teachings of the Church in the light of philosophic and scientific conceptions prevalent in the late 19th and early 20th centuries: condemned by Pope Pius X in 1907.
b. the liberal theological tendency in Protestantism in the 20th century.

2. (sometimes initial capital letter) a deliberate philosophical and practical estrangement or divergence from the past in the arts and literature occurring esp. in the course of the 20th century and taking form in any of various innovative movements and styles.

Now I bet you a bag of doughnuts that there were many conservatives and fundamentalists in the 19th and early 20th century who preached this idea was straight from the pits of hell ... especially when I saw the words "in light of philosophic and scientific conceptions prevalent in the late 19th and early 20th centuries."

And "post-modernism":

Postmodernism defined by Terry Eagleton as "the contemporary movement of thought which rejects ... the possibility of objective knowledge" and is therefore "skeptical of truth, unity, and progress."

Now a question for those of you who are familiar with this topic. Did post-modernism grow out of the disillusionment following WW I and WW II? Many really believed up until WW I that mankind was getting better and better every day and that paradise on earch was just around the courner. The two great wars left this idea in ashes and ushered in a much more cynical mood ... imho

 

[Marcia]

Christianity is transcendent of premodernism, modernism, and postmodernism.

Any of these three major philosophical constructs stands outside of Christianity. It isn't an friend, it isn't an enemy.

I agree with your first statement above. However, I do think there are worldly philosophies that are enemies of the gospel! There are quite a few of them. I see them as "man's wisdom" that opposes itself to God and to God's wisdom.

 

[tinytim]

I think we all agree that there are things that are contrary to the Bible.

I think the problem is, we are all talking about different things when we talk about postmodernism, modernism, etc.

When I hear those terms, I think of the cultural shift around 1990, that moved from the modern era to the postmodern era...

Others think of absolute truth vs. non-absolute truth...

So to get a good grasp on the discussion, we must be able to understand what others are meaning when they say things...

 

[Crabtownboy]

Man's Wisdom

I posted a definition of modernism earlier ... was it acceptable?

 

[Goldie]

Yes, McLaren likes Spong, who happens to deny pretty much all the essentials of the faith. McLaren likes Marcus Borg, too -- Borg of the Jesus Seminar. A lot of people say McLaren is way out there but the problem is, he is influencing others and others are following him. McLaren was a speaker at Willow Creek's conf. for youth workers.

Yes, I totally agree, and modern Christianity has become a total embarrasment - there's not much difference between it and the world or even other religions.