Is OBL dead?

Whether he is dead or not, al Qaeda is an organization that should have been dealt with when it was still headquartered in Afghanistan. The Bush administration was very, very foolish to have allowed it to escape into western Pakistan.

 

If he is, then, good riddance.

 

For a dead guy he sure has made alot of videos. Maybe Hollywood should do a mini series on it they could call it "The continuing saga of Osama Bin Lazarus" or "How the west was duped by intelligence agencies and the military industrial complex."

Maybe it would have been best if we never created "Al Qeada" and the Taleban to begin with Ken.

 

:applause:

Poncho,
I heard about the inditment in absentia of OBL by the creation of 'Al Qeada" during a trials' false testimony (our people paid the 'witness' to convincingly lie) ...... which was necessary to 'create' an organization of which we appointed him as its 'leader' and without which... we'd had no one to chase... but I don't have the particulars or the sources any more...... do you?

Yes those videos reported by the networks and excused as an uncertainty by our government.... have still been useful to keep the legend alive and well to work its majik on the body politic of fear in our nation.

Maybe there's some truths which 'they' tell us that we should be hearing like:
GWB saying the constitution is just a g-d- piece of paper
GWB reporting he saw the plane hit the first tower on tv before visiting the class room
Donald Rumsfeld verbal slip that a missile hit the Pentagon
Silverstein's record of (he'd recently acqired the WTC towers and bidg 7).... stating to 'pull the building.
OBL is not on the FBI most wanted list.
GWB has stated repeatedly that we're not concerned about OBL.


Why is the report of the 1100 witness to the 911 investigative commission sealed against public disclosure? If their testimony was an indictment of the enemy we're persuing then it would add to our resolve: But, if the testimony is an indictment of sources within our own government or an ally (I'm sleepy and can't spell), then it smacks of 'false flag' or other sinister purpose.

People have asked for lists of the persons killed on the flights.... and none are available....yet the FBI quickly uncovered the (false) identities of the hijackers.... so we have plane with passenger records but know are identified or known except for the hijackers... and a few disclosed 'cell phone calls' from a height which should exceed the capacity of cell towers to pick up.....

And everything, from RFIDs to laws of increased and liberal surveillance of our citizens, and threats to censor or prosecute free thinkers who question the stories we've been told... as siding with the terrorist, the distraction of our focus from those things which desserved our attention.... the introduction and tolerance of torture as acceptable interrogation of the accused..........all has pivoted around the incident of 911 which was blamed almost immediately upon this fall guy, OBL, and which rallied the support of our nation to agree with the policies of our leaders and wars which kill or injure the most corageous amongst us while it weakens our economy and our military strength...... but they are doing it all for our good.

When a government can no longer afford to be transparent before its people..... something is seriously seriously wrong. Truth stands in the light but deception is an evil which covets the darkness.

 

Oooooops..... GWB is 'back on' to get OBL!..... Will the wonders never cease!

FROM HERE

 

Maybe we should have listened to Oliver North when he warned us about OBL.

Maybe Clinton shouldn't have let him slip through his fingers.

Can't blame President Bush for either one of those blunders...

Hussein had several other people who looked exactly like him via plastic surgery etc. Who's to say that OBL isn't dead and one of his stand-ins are making the videos?

 

Here is Silverstein's actual comment (From the PBS documentary 'America Rebuilds')

"I remember getting a call from the fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, 'We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it.' And they made that decision to pull and we watched the building collapse." –Larry Silverstein

So the Fire Department called Silverstein, and he agrees with them that the firefighters should be pulled away from the building. They had no water pressure due to broken water mains. And three hours later the building collapses. Not blown up, not pulled down with cables, but collapsed.

 

How many donkeys does it take to carry a dialysis machine in winter over mountains from Afghanistan to Pakistan? Do they even work in freezing temps (the machines, I know donkeys work in the winter)?

This page is an index of articles relating to Osama bin Laden

 

Doesn't matter. He won the war. Maybe the cheapest invasion in the history of the world.

 

If there were no firefighters then...?

 

Deputy Chief Peter Hayden: "That was just one of those wars we were just going to lose. We were concerned about the collapse of a 47-story building there. We were worried about additional collapse there of what was remaining standing of the towers and the Marriott, so we started pulling the people back after a couple of hours of surface removal and searches along the surface of the debris. We started to pull guys back because we were concerned for their safety." - LINK

 

This is a good report (From 2002) on how Bin Laden escaped Tora Bora:


"Bin Laden said, 'hold your positions firm and be ready for martyrdom,' Baker told Afghan intelligence officers when he was captured in mid-December. "He said, 'I'll be visiting you again, very soon.' " Then, as quickly as he had come, Baker says, bin Laden vanished into the pine forests.

On Dec. 11, in the village of Upper Pachir - located a few miles northeast of the main complex of caves where Al Qaeda fighters were holed up - a Saudi financier and Al Qaeda operative, Abu Jaffar, was interviewed by the Monitor. Fleeing the Tora Bora redoubt, Mr. Jaffar said that bin Laden had left the cave complexes roughly 10 days earlier, heading for the Parachinar area of Pakistan.

Bin Laden, according to several fighters and the Saudi financier, later phoned back to the enclave, urging his followers to keep fighting. He also reportedly told them he was sending his own son, Salah Uddin, to replace him. Bin Laden's talk with his followers in Tora Bora just a few days after his departure may explain why US intelligence officials said that they thought they heard his voice on Dec. 10, probably on a short-wave transmission.

LINK

 

Well, that settles that I reckon. FEMA, PM and NYT are wrong then. Aren't these some of the same "credible sources" you keep citing though?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuoQZkBFj9A&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XQWBQKsqBU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1TtbWJ3_bU&feature=related

 

If your point is that there was no attempt to put out the fires in WTC7, then you are right. There was no water pressure anyway. But there were firefighters working around the building, searching the surface of the rubble for survivors. These are the people that were pulled back.


"It had very heavy fire on many floors and I ordered the evacuation of an area sufficient around to protect our members" - Chief Nigro

"Yeah, we had to pull everybody back. It was very difficult. We had to be very forceful in getting the guys out. They didn’t want to come out. There were guys going into areas that I wasn’t even really comfortable with, because of the possibility of secondary collapses. We didn’t know how stable any of this area was. We pulled everybody back probably by 3 or 3:30 in the afternoon." - Deputy Chief Hayden

 

It was so unstable in fact it's total collapse was reported twenty minutes before it's total collapse!

 

Ahh, the confused BBC reporter who didn't know one building from another. Well there were plenty of confused people that day, and most of them were New Yorkers, not foreign reporters:

*

Q. "That was 7 World Trade Center?"
A. "I believe it was 7. Maybe it was 5. It was at the back end of it because I do remember the telephone company. So I think it was the back end of 7, I think right over here at that point, and they couldn't get out". –EMT Nicole Ferrell

*

"Just moments before the south tower collapsed and, you know, when it happened we didn't know it was the south tower. We thought it was the north tower. There was a reporter of some sort, female with blond hair and her cameraman, an oriental fellow. They were setting up outside 7 World Trade Center, just east of the pedestrian bridge."
–EMS Division Chief Jon Peruggia

 

BBC Reported Collapse of WTC Building 7 Early-- TWICE

 

BBC also once put a man on live television who had come in for a job interview. Not long ago, news outlets were reporting that Castro had died, or was about to die. CNN, on 9/11, reported that WTC7 "had fallen or is about to fall", based on all the warnings that it was going to collapse.

Sorry, none of that proves anything really, other than that reporters can be confused just like anyone else.