Is Physical Death A Form Of God's Chastisement?

Be confident in the truth is my recommendation. You appear to have sufficient mastery of this area of Bible doctrine. These are very clear passages and you have dealt with them honesty, hence you understand them rightly and will benefit from that.

It is when people start with an agenda or subscribe to some system of theology that causes the elementary to be their hangman. Instead of seeing what is plain and clear in elementary texts they are forced, due to a form of arrogance, to deny what they know they see in order to manipulate the passage or verse in their mind so that its convolution fits the demands of the theological grid they have determined must be right.

Their mistake of course is that their ego is involved in searching for the truth that only results in skewed conclusions, a frantic search for what they determine is the most intellectually superior system or a system that is steeped in self-righteousness, all of which of course appeals to the ego. So after investing not just interest and study but their ego in the equation, when confronted with the realization that they are in error, they are unable to accept. Hence you get personalities unable to handle even elementary passages.

I realize that you didn't solicit this angle in a response but I thought I would encourage you while telling you, yes, you are right on and understand clearly what the Scriptures are saying and teaching on this occasion.

 

Would the sin unto death spoken of in 1 John be included in the physical death to avoid condemnation with the world that you referenced in 1 Cor.?

 

Yes it is. The passage is very clear. Believers can and do sin a sin NOT unto death and unto death. John is talking to and about believers and in no way deviates from that in this verse.

 

I have read commentaries that say that the sin unto death is a judgement against the individual in order that they may not bring shame to the name of Christ. But, there are so many in this world shaming the name of our Lord even as we speak, yet they continue in their sin without the punishment of death, I don't think this is correct interpretation. What do you think?
It seems more likely that it is an act of mercy for the sinner?

 

Yes, the sin unto death is the final step in God's process of chastisement on this earth, if he so chooses to discipline in that way. Just as stoning was not a common method of disciplining a child in the OT, so death is not a common method of discipline by our Lord. But it is an option that he has for one that is particularly wayward. It serves two purposes:
1. It prevents a wayward believer from dragging the name of Jesus through the mud, and thus continue to bring shame to his name., and
2. In mercy He brings his child home thus saving him frome even more loss of reward at the JSOC, that he would otherwise incur would he be permitted to live.

We don't know what this sin is. Only God knows. With Ananias and Sapphira it was the sin of hypocrisy. With the Corinthian believers it was the abuise of the Lord's Table.

 

The passage does not deal with God's motives so for someone to say, "It is because they are bringing shame to the name of the Lord" is them imposing on the passage what is not there.

Your observation makes this clear. There are plenty of believers bringing shame.

The history of the chastisement or discipline of God with believers is covered extensively in the OT and His dealing with Israel. They faced 5 major cycles of discipline, the last resulting of course in their being cut off, their death.

During all these cycles shame was brought. But God isn't worried about you shaming His name, that isn't possible for a Divine Motive.

What we can see however, as is exampled by Israel, discipline comes as a result of repeated neck-stiffening and refusal to head warnings. Why does God do this? Because the Scriptures clearly teach he loves us and scourges those he loves. Meaning he isn't careless but allows or produces suffering for our benefit. It is always for OUR benefit, NOT His, hence his name being sullied is not a motive and again, is not compatible with Divine Attributes.

Why death in the end? The Bible isn't explicit but we do know that the Scriptures indicate that death comes when it is clear you will no longer respond to even the most severe form of suffering and warning while alive (again I refer to the cycles of the discipline for the Jews and their eventual demise as a nation). Your life on earth then is concluded by God.

 

It is time to sleep. Good night.

 

That's pretty much the way I see it, but it's a difficult scripture and I want to examine all the possiblities and viewpoints. I sure don't claim to know for sure.

This is a good thread. Thanks for starting it jne.

 

If this is chastisement, does it do away with the sin unto death?

 

Well, it has to be a really bad sin, does this chastisement of death pay for that sin?

 

Ok, lets just say they are little sins, any sin you want to call it. Does this chastisement cleanse it.