Only staying in context with what RCS, Jr. said. ""Sanctification is not monergistic. It is synergistic. That is, it demands the cooperation of the regenerate believer. We are called to work and grow in grace. We are to work hard, resisting sin unto blood if necessary, pummeling our bodies if that is what it takes to subdue them."
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Is "Sanctification" monergistic?
- Thread starter quantumfaith
- Start date
Are we made HOLY in our Works?
Is it not a "gift of God" that we are justified, and sanctified by the Spirit of God? These are obtained by the Grace of God, Through Faith, with no works of man.
quantumfaith
Active Member
ituttut,
It is my conviction that we must believe and express faith in order to experience palingenisis, and we must have faith and exert our will, enabled and empowered by the Holy Spirit in the life long pursuit of sanctification. Speaking only of sanctification, seems to me if it were simply monegistic, then we would no longer sin after our "new birth", indeed sin would no longer be an issue for us to wrestle with. My guess is, that there is not a person here, who now as a believer, never or for that matter "rarely" is faced with the specter of sin in their life.
psalms109:31
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by psalms109:31 View Post
What if our treasure is people that God used us to touch with a better hope of drawing near to God through Jesus Christ?
Hebrews 7:
18 The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.
Originally Posted by psalms109:31 View Post
What if our treasure is people that God used us to touch with a better hope of drawing near to God through Jesus Christ?
Hebrews 7:
18 The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.
I differ, and if I read you correctly you seem to be speaking from Mars' Hill referring to such as ontogeny. My desire to be in the Body of Christ was brought about by the will of God, and not because I willed it, or had any work to enter therein. The Works are His, even though we may claim otherwise.
quantumfaith
Active Member
Well, respectfully so, we disagree brother. I do agree salvation is by the grace of God, but to me....Man MUST respond to that grace. He MUST exhibit faith and belief. So, we simply disagree.
[Originally Posted by ituttut]It is nice to have works, for the right reason, but works has nothing to do with our salvation. The one that was killed at the same time as Jesus, deathbed salvation is completely void of any of OUR WORKS. Works are for any awards we may receive at our rewards ceremony
[Originally Posted by psalms109:31 ]
What if our treasure is people that God used us to touch with a better hope of drawing near to God through Jesus Christ?
Originally Posted byituttut
Are we made HOLY in our Works?
[Originally Posted by psalms109:31
Hebrews 7:
18 The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.
Originally [postes by ituttut
To put into proper perspective at first above I speak to our original salvation without works, then on to our works counting as to any rewards we may have coming from any "works" we have done to please our Lord, after our salvation.
Your reply then asks the question "what if". I answered with "Are we made HOLY in our Works? I asked for your reply looked to moved us to another treasure than Jesus Christ, to gaining to ourselves, by our works.
[Originally Posted by psalms109:31 ]
What if our treasure is people that God used us to touch with a better hope of drawing near to God through Jesus Christ?
Originally Posted byituttut
Are we made HOLY in our Works?
[Originally Posted by psalms109:31
Hebrews 7:
18 The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.
Originally [postes by ituttut
To put into proper perspective at first above I speak to our original salvation without works, then on to our works counting as to any rewards we may have coming from any "works" we have done to please our Lord, after our salvation.
Your reply then asks the question "what if". I answered with "Are we made HOLY in our Works? I asked for your reply looked to moved us to another treasure than Jesus Christ, to gaining to ourselves, by our works.
psalms109:31
Active Member
Romans 4
Abraham Justified by Faith
1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”[Gen. 15:6; also in verse 22
]
4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”[Psalm 32:1,2
]
Trusting in Jesus and drawing near to God through Jesus as a work came from man not God as the above scripture teaches it is not a work.
Through trusting in Jesus, He leads us to salvation and God will use His sheep to reach other sheep with the message of the better hope.
2 Corinthians 5
16 So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come:[Or Christ, that person is a new creation.] The old has gone, the new is here! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21 God made him who had no sin to be sin[Or be a sin offering] for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
Proverbs 3
5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways submit to him,
and he will make your paths straight.[Or will direct your paths
]
7 Do not be wise in your own eyes;
fear the LORD and shun evil.
For me to work for my salvation is to obey the law and I failed, so I can't save myself. I have to trust Jesus that He will do what He said He will do.
Everyone wants a mansion in the sky, I do not even deserve a dog house, my treasure is to see others in heaven with me, and if God used me after my salvation to reach some then all praise goes to Jesus and it is the greatest treasure for me.
Abraham Justified by Faith
1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”[Gen. 15:6; also in verse 22
]
4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”[Psalm 32:1,2
]
Trusting in Jesus and drawing near to God through Jesus as a work came from man not God as the above scripture teaches it is not a work.
Through trusting in Jesus, He leads us to salvation and God will use His sheep to reach other sheep with the message of the better hope.
2 Corinthians 5
16 So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come:[Or Christ, that person is a new creation.] The old has gone, the new is here! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21 God made him who had no sin to be sin[Or be a sin offering] for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
Proverbs 3
5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways submit to him,
and he will make your paths straight.[Or will direct your paths
]
7 Do not be wise in your own eyes;
fear the LORD and shun evil.
For me to work for my salvation is to obey the law and I failed, so I can't save myself. I have to trust Jesus that He will do what He said He will do.
Everyone wants a mansion in the sky, I do not even deserve a dog house, my treasure is to see others in heaven with me, and if God used me after my salvation to reach some then all praise goes to Jesus and it is the greatest treasure for me.
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1 John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
HankD
Agree to respectfully disagree in the grace gospel of Paul.
Yes, Abraham is justified by faith, and David too. Please re-read Hebrews 11 again which shows they are all justified by faith as they lived. I have never said otherwise
Agree their sins were covered. But until Jesus' blood was shed, could they be saved as We Today, just a Peter says in Acts 15:11.
We are not Israel, so we are not seen as His sheep. Where can you find that Paul uses such language to us?
I don't know why you are telling me WORKS of man cannot save. This is what I have been saying. Please don't try to turn my words to what you think you have read. THROUGH FAITH alone, I am justified.
It looks to me as if we both believe in Jesus Christ, and we are saved by His works, and not ours.
psalms109:31
Active Member
I am glad
What you have just said shows to me we are in agreement.
Non-Jews are included with His sheep when we heard the Gospel of our salvation having believed.
Israel is His beloved sheep, those who were cut, was cut out for unbelief. If they do not continue in their unbelief, they can be crafted back in.
All Israel will be saved as in these.
Romans 2:
28 A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical.29No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.
What you have just said shows to me we are in agreement.
Non-Jews are included with His sheep when we heard the Gospel of our salvation having believed.
Israel is His beloved sheep, those who were cut, was cut out for unbelief. If they do not continue in their unbelief, they can be crafted back in.
All Israel will be saved as in these.
Romans 2:
28 A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical.29No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.
Yes, John backs up what our apostle Paul informs about 30 years before John wrote this. Philippians3:20-21, " For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21. Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself."
Does not Paul make it a lot clearer of who is responsible for our salvation? John is saying it is the hope that purifies the man, and not man purifing themselves. A simple question -- How Do You Purify Yourself, if that is what yhou are saying?
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Amen to right discernment.