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Is Scripture INCONSISTENT??

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Bismarck, Sep 24, 2007.

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  1. Bismarck

    Bismarck New Member

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    Genesis 22:1 (AV)
    And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.​

    James 1:13 (AV)
    Let no man say when he is tempted, 'I am tempted of God': for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth He any man.​


    In James 1:13, the English word "tempteth" comes from the Greek word peirazo (G3985).

    In Genesis 22:1, in the Greek Septuagint (LXX), this exact root (G3985) is used for "God did tempt Abraham". (The specific conjugation is epeirase.)


    (In Genesis 22:1, in the Hebrew Masoretic Text (MT), the English word "tempt" comes from the Hebrew word nacah (H5254). In the LXX, the Hebrew nacah is generally translated by the Greek peirazo (G3985).)


    Thus, it is quite clear that the exact same (root) word is used in Genesis 22:1 and James 1:13. Yet James the Just, first Bishop of Jerusalem and Head of the early Church, says that God does not do what the OT says God did do.

    ???
     
    #1 Bismarck, Sep 24, 2007
  2. Fred Moritz

    Fred Moritz New Member

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    Is Scripture Inconsistent

    The answer is a resounding "no." There is a simple linguistic answer to this.

    The Hebrew word for "tempt" in that verse is the word nasah which can mean either "test" or "tempt" according to the context. God "tested" Abraham. The BDB Hebrew Lexicon states that the Piel form of the verb means "to test" and it is a Piel in Genesis 22:1.

    Interestingly, the New Testamet Greek word for "tempt" in James 1 is the word peirazo and that word can mean "to test" or "to tempt" according to the context.

    God tested Abraham, He does not tempt us with evil, and we are tempted when we are led away of our own lusts.

    Fred Moritz
     
    #2 Fred Moritz, Sep 24, 2007
  3. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Nailed it! :thumbs:
     
    #3 webdog, Sep 24, 2007
  4. LeBuick

    LeBuick New Member

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    As was Jesus tested (tempted) in the wilderness...
     
    #4 LeBuick, Sep 24, 2007
  5. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    Bismarck, per your previous attacks on your Calvinistic brethren on this board, I venture to say that you are the one who is Inconsisent.
     
    #5 TCGreek, Sep 24, 2007
  6. ktn4eg

    ktn4eg New Member

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    I'm still a bit confused as to just exactly what Jesus was trying to teach us in that portion of the model prayer found in Matthew 6:13 where it states: "Lead us not into temptation."

    This cannot mean temptation to sin because God will not do this (James 1:13).

    OTOH, if this word is referring to having one's faith tested, why would Jesus commend us to pray that the Father not do this when James 1:12 promises blessings to those who endure the testing of their faith?

    Can someone shed some light as to what precisely the Matthew 6:13 passage is referring?
     
    #6 ktn4eg, Sep 25, 2007
  7. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    The "lead us not into temptation" part of the prayer could simply mean "spare us from temptation". But even if God ever leads us into testing/temptation, God is not, Himself, tempting us.

    Then again, maybe this is one of the reasons why people like Luther thought James shouldn't be part of the canon - even though Luther changed his mind.
     
    #7 npetreley, Sep 25, 2007
  8. Bismarck

    Bismarck New Member

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    First, look at the second half of the phrase, "deliver us from evil". "Deliver" is from the Greek word rhyomai (G4506). It means "to draw back to oneself". (Also, "Evil" is poneros (G4190) and it has a definite article, implying it means the Evil [one].)

    Thus, we have "draw us back from the Evil one". Notice that image of "reeling us back in" towards God.


    Now, according to a Hebrew text of Matthew, the word "lead" in the first half of the phrase actually means something like "allow to stray [away]". Note the complimentary image, of straying away from God, vs. being drawn back towards Him.

    If this is correct, the true meaning is:

    "Let us not [stray away] into temptation, but draw us back from the Evil one."
     
    #8 Bismarck, Sep 25, 2007
  9. Bismarck

    Bismarck New Member

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    2 Samuel 21:1
    Now again the anger of YHWH burned against Israel, and it incited David against them to say, " Go, number Israel and Judah."

    1 Chr 21:1
    Then Satan stood up against Israel and moved David to number Israel.



    ???



    Is Satan the "anger of YHWH"??
     
    #9 Bismarck, Sep 25, 2007
  10. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Well said, Dr. Moritz. I can add nothing.

    Your friend, John
     
    #10 John of Japan, Sep 25, 2007
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