Is the presence of God in Hell for Eternity?

NOPE! (in boxcar letters!)

Ed

 

Please note the "from the presense" and "from the glory" part.

 

People look at...

... and believe it means that God's presence is in Hell.

The word Hell there in Strong's concordance is 'sheh-ole' meaning hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranean retreat), including its ancessories and inmates: - grave, hell, pit.

The KJV translators use the word hell for several different hebrew words. I've heard some people claim that this is hell as we know of it. Others have said that it refers to the grave with the point being that one cannot run from God's presence.

 

The grave (Sheol) and hell (as in Lake of Fire) are not the same place.

The Lake of Fire does not exist yet - or at least no one is in it yet since Satan and his cohorts are thrown in first. The Lake of Fire is the 2nd death and this death is eternal separation from God. Perhaps God could be there but I believe He will withdraw his presence from there. 2nd Thess 1.9 is pretty clear.

 

Luke 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

I do believe those in hell will be able to see those in heaven and visa versa until such time as hell is cast into the lake of fire. I believe part of the torment is to see the choice they past up on was not only real but eternal.

 

This is speaking of paradise which Christ emptied out when He went and took all the Old Testament saints to heaven. Hell as we know it is still there inside the earth. There is no basis I can find for the damned to beable to see into heaven. Paradise is empty.

 

God's presence...

Is God Omnipresent or not
If as some of you say; God withdraws His presence from hell, then He is NOT Omnipresent.

On the other hand; a) if He IS Omnipresent and b) God never changes; then c) God's presence is also in Hell.

What some of you may be missing is that while God certainly IS Omnipresent, one must also consider that "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God".

Therefore: God's presence in hell will be such that it will be a terrible thing to behold. "Our God is a consuming FIRE".

And finally:
God's presence in heaven will be sweeter than we could imagine for : "In thy presence is fulness of joy".

Have a great day! :wavey:

 

I would like to add one thing.

The "presence" of God is usually thought of in more spiritual/emotional terms than philosophical.

Omnipresence is a philosophical concept, so if we are thinking philosophically, then God must be present in hell, if we assume omnipresence.

Now, the "presence" of God (e.g. Moses at the Bush, the Holy of Holies in the Temple, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit) is not really much of a philosophical concept. Do I think God is present in this kind of way in hell? No.

Is God ontologically present in hell? Yes. Is God "present" in hell in the sense of personal, positive revelation? No.

 

Stephan;
I disagree. For the obvious reasons I stated. "Our God is a consuming FIRE".

For they who are in hell and will be in eternity, the presence of God will be torment beyond imagination.

For they who are in "heaven" and will be in eternity, the presence of God will be "Joy unspeakable and full of glory, full of glory, full of glory..."

And I believe that His presence is always personal for He is a personal God.

Think it through. I believe this position is the only Biblical answer to the quandry. 'If God is love then how can He be present in hell?'

His love wont be but His wrath will be.

 

I was not necessarily disagreeing with your position.

I said God was not present in the sense of "personal, positive revelation." Perhaps I should have defined positive better. I mean it in a loving sense.

IMO, God is not present in a personal, loving/indwelling/empowering sense. This does not exclude a personal and punishing sense, which is what you are stating.

 

Stephan, interesting perspective, "Omnipresence is a philosophical concept."

What if I told you I believe God is mind? Not a mind, MIND. And we are really living in the mind of God.

My Dad's doctorinal work was on the theology of the mind. In it he reasoned that God is MIND, and that when he created man, he thought us into being. He went on to explain how this fits with God's Omnipresence, power, wisdom and knowledge. It also explains why God is not limited to any of the natural laws that limit man. He supposes GOD is not a physical God, but a Mind capable of unlimited thinking and imagination.

Thoughts?

I will look for his papers this weekend because I know I didn't do his work justice. It was a brilliant paper that his professor insisted on getting published but Dad refused.

 

Mr

Hell is eternal separation from God. Will He be eternally present in Hell? I believe that He will be there in the sense that He will remain in control over everything that exists. Those in Hell will never experience that He is there. They will be forever abandoned by Him because they rejected Him.

 

How do you reconcile this position with 2 Thess 1.9?

 

Yikes! This sounds almost exactly like Christian Science -- "all is Divine Mind." It seems that the natural implication of this would be that all is God and God is all -- pantheism.

I don't think God is physical in the sense of having a body, but he does have attributes that indicate he is a personal being. I do not think just being "Mind" would indicate a personal being.

Well, you asked for feedback, so there it is. :type:

 

Being in hell apart from the presence of God is in itself hell, as that is truly the greatest form of desparation and hopelessness, knowing God won't and CANNOT hear you, no matter how loud you cry. Sure, the fire and other torments are bad enough, but knowing this is going to be FOREVER and that there is NO hope in hell, will probably be one of the worst if not THE worst parts of hell.

That's why every person, and especially every professed Christian needs to make their calling and election sure, make sure they have entered into His rest and have ceased from their own labours (Heb. 4:1-13, etc.)

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Also,

 

No. Try rethinking the idea of what life and death truly is.

Eternal life = with God

Eternal death = without God

Spiritual death is not the same as physical death. Souls don't die and rot, and they are eternal whether or not a person is saved/unsaved.

 

Yep, I know I didn't do it justice so NP. However, what attributes are you referring to?

 

Attributes to indicate that God is personal?
Love, grief, wrath, judgment, knowledge, patience, and mercy are some of them.

 

:thumbs::applause: