Is The Spiritual Content of Scripture Compromised by Many Modern English Translations

[JD731]

You think incorrectly. The early English Bible translators and the KJV translators did not agree with your inconsistent and incorrect thinking.

In his prologue to the Christian reader in his 1535 English translation, Miles Coverdale wrote: "Whereas some men think now the many translations make division in the faith and in the people of God, it is not so."

In their comments to the brethren of England, Scotland, Ireland, etc. in the 1560 edition, the Geneva Bible translators acknowledged that “some translations read after one sort, and some after another, whereas all may serve to good purpose and edification.“

Jack Lewis quoted Matthew Parker and Edmund Grindal as writing in 1565: “For though one other special bible for the churches be meant by us to be set forth as convenient time and leisure hereafter will permit yet shall it nothing hinder but rather do much good to have diversity of translations and readings” (Day after Domesday, p. 10).


Did God in effect provide English-speaking believers with multiple differing Bible versions in English (especially for the book of Psalms) for many years?

Why do you think these men you quote are the smartest people in the room? And why do you like to quote the translators of the KJV as if they were chosen by God to do it because of their spiritual acumen and their ability to discern biblical truth? You yourself have raved about their connection to the Anglican church and the false doctrines they espouse as believers of that system. When you present the criticism of them for being Church of England members and believing and practicing what that church teaches and then point out their brilliance for telling us someone else can do their job better when they say this; "In their preface to the 1611 KJV, its translators themselves argued that "variety of translations is profitable for finding the sense of the Scriptures." I hope you are not convinced by that statement that the way to understand spiritual truths is to have dozens of different versions of those words as God's means of teaching us his truths. I am stunned that you believe this. What kind of logic and reasoning is this?
From Gen 15:1 we are introduced to Adonay Jehovah, the word of the LORD, Jesus Christ in the scriptures, the one who gives the word of the Father in heaven a voice among men on the earth. The number of times the lord God is mentioned in the KJV is 13 times and likewise the word of the Lord is there 13 times, a significant number associated over and over with the gentile church.

I have asked you to make a scriptural case for God commissioning men to preserve his word and you have never done it. How could imperfect men preserve the perfect word of God when Jesus himself says the words he speaks are spirit and they are life. The KJV translators as well as you and the friends that you quote ad nauseam are in error when they say that God wants the Bible to be in a format for ease of understanding for all and the way of understanding is to compare translations. The way God says to understand is to compare words.

1 Cor 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

The only part of the scriptures that God wants understood by the unsaved is the gospel of Jesus Christ and his desire to save anyone who will come to him through Christ. He says that plainly. here:

Mr 10:14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

To those who hear and will not humble themselves as a little child he has a word for them also.

Mt 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

I have quoted from Mt 13 in this thread. We are told Jesus began to speak to Israel in parables here at the end of his earthly ministry and his disciples who had been with him the whole time were surprised and asked him why he was speaking to them in parables. His equally surprising answer is because he had given them ample time to believe him as a little child and now he is speaking in mysteries to hide his truths from them. Time was up for them. He goes on to say that unless one has a divine teacher from within he cannot know these mysteries and they are taught through words that God has chosen. Thus the same words will enlighten some while blinding others depending on the condition of their hearts.

Mr 1:22 And they were astonished at his doctrine: for he taught them as one that had authority, and not as the scribes.

 

[Logos1560]

And why do you like to quote the translators of the KJV as if they were chosen by God to do it because of their spiritual acumen and their ability to discern biblical truth? You yourself have raved about their connection to the Anglican church and the false doctrines they espouse as believers of that system. When you present the criticism of them for being Church of England members and believing and practicing what that church teaches and then point out their brilliance for telling us someone else can do their job better when they say this; "In their preface to the 1611 KJV, its translators themselves argued that "variety of translations is profitable for finding the sense of the Scriptures."

If you allege that the Church of England makers of the KJV were wrong in their essential doctrine concerning the Scriptures or their doctrine concerning Bible translations, why do you seem to contradict you yourself by seeming to suggest that their textual criticism decisions, Bible revision decisions, translation/interpretation decisions in the 1611 KJV should be trusted blindly or trusted 100%?

It is inconsistent, non-scriptural KJV-only reasoning/teaching that seems to assume or imply that the Church of England makers of the KJV were chosen exclusively by God to translate the Scriptures into English so that the word of God in English is in effect bound or limited to their textual criticism decisions, Bible revision decisions, and translation/interpretation decisions. It is KJV-only reasoning/teaching that seems to suggest that the KJV translators could be their jobs of textual criticism, Bible revision, and translation better than all other English Bible translators. It is inconsistent KJV-only reasoning that seems to suggest that God showed partiality or respect to persons to the Church of England makers of the KJV.

Are you acknowledging the truth that there may be or are examples of Church of England doctrinal bias in the KJV as its Church of England makers changed some good renderings in the pre-1611 word of God translated into English to make them more favorable to Church of England episcopal church government views?

 

[JonC]

Jon C I need to get a little house cleaning out of the way here. You said this;



Like I had made that claim. I have not but you may quote the passage where you think I did.This is the second time I have called your attention to this error in this thread.

I will not answer you point by point because you give your own theology without scriptural evidence. You rarely offer any scripture quotes. This means context is not considered to prove your points.

Concerning the mysteries, it is the apostle Paul, the apostle to the gentiles, who was given the revelation of the mysteries of God. He wrote 13 letters to reveal them and all of them were given to make known to both Jews and gentiles what God had predetermined particularly for this age. Jesus himself put this age into parabolic form when he gave 7 parables in Matthew 13 that takes us from the beginning of the age with the sowing of the seed (the seed is the word of God LK 8:11)) and the end is the gathering the harvest into God's barn at the harvest season. there is a sowing season, a growing season and a harvest season.

I am going to quote an excerpt from this chapter concerning this crop and say to you that it will be impossible for a proper understanding if you have not believed the OT scriptures and the promises he has made to Abraham and his seed. Your dismissing of the Abrahamic covenant and replacing it with your own ideas will ensure that you will not be able to see into the mind of God through his words because there are two endings in this parable.

Now for my understanding of the harvest of the seed sown in the field of which tares were also sown by the enemy.

36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world (kosmos, the globe and it's people); the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world (aion - age time period); and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world The age when the harvest was reaped).
This is the rapture.

41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom ( not his church) all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
This is after the second Coming of Christ see Mat 24:27-31

The OT age of law was abbreviated because of the death of the nation of Judah and the harvest of that nation was delayed (see Matt 1-12). But we know the nation is resurrected and we have seen it ourselves in 1948 AD. But it is unsaved. It will take 7 years to finish it and purge it from it's rebels and save every one of them who are left.

Why would God prove he has the ability to raise the dead with the resurrection of two OT witnesses, Moses and Elijah, to preach to a nation and world without one single saved soul left after the rapture of the church as recorded in Re 4? Faith comes by hearing what God says. Somebody has to say it and the same gospel that was preached in the gospels will be preached in the first 3.5 years of the 7. No one will be saved in the second 3.5 years but there will be pain and misery and judgement and death and the earth will be purged of her unbelievers and those changes to the earth by water will be reversed by earthquakes over the whole earth. The 7 years of tribulation is not the grace of God, it is the wrath of God.

6:1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.
2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.
4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.
5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.
6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.
8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

I think a multitude of new Bible translations with different words has taken away the confidence in the precision of the words of God. Especilly as it concerns those who speak English.

My point is that the Old Testament repeatedly states that the Messiah would come to save Gentiles.

If one lacks confidence because there are many translations of Scripture then that person lacks a basic understanding of what is a translation. When we study Scripture, the more translations the better. We always go back to what is being translated.


Example- Take the KJV. It is a wonderful translation. But so is the NKJB and the NIV. Each translation has its own focus and mode. Christians who use the KJV would benefit from using other translations alongside the KJV.

Reading Isaiah 14 using the KJV the reader may view "Lucifer" as Satan's name. But reading any other translation they would see an exalted position instead. This would lead the reader to deeper study. Research would give the reader the truth that "Lucifer" was Latin for "Venus" (the "morning star") and used to indicate an exalted position. Because the student used a few translations he was able to understand the passage.