Is there a difference?

I've never in my life heard "dying to self" equated to salvation. I have heard this concept preached from two passages. Paul said, " I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die" (1 Cor. 15:31-32). This passage is most obviously not referring to salvation. Paul was willing to die for Jesus Christ, and took up his cross daily, knowing that he might be killed at any time for the name of Jesus Christ.

Again, Christ said in John 12:24, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit." So in order to be useful to Jesus Christ as His servant we must die to self--forget all our own desires, wants and needs, and sacrifice them to Him.

When thinking about leaving all behind to be a missionary, I wrote a poem about it:

Deny Thyself​

By John R. Himes

​

What sense of loss there always is
When leaving self behind.
What unfulfilled desires must die,
Hopes lost within the mind.

The heart may cry, AIt is enough,
My life can lose no more.
My fondest dreams are swallowed up,
My strength crushed to the floor.@

Yet still the kind Creator moves
His hand across the life,
And takes impurities away,
And cancels sinful strife.

Yet still the precious Savior takes
The vessel broken up,
And shapes it very patiently
Into a golden cup.

The joy that comes from sadness deep,
The happiness from pain,
Will far exceed the strongest hopes,
And make earth=s pleasures vain.

So tremble not to lose yourself,
And live for Christ alone.
The life you live for others
Will forever be your own.

 

I am sorry I really don´t understand what you are saying. Are you saying that repentance is not necessary for Salvation but something the believer does after he is saved?

 

Skypair, I too watched that episode of the Ankerberb show. RC could have been clearer, IMO.

At any rate, I don't believe a person has to confess his sins in the conversion experience. I see no scriptural evidence of that.

This is what I see: "repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ" (Acts 20:21, KJV).

 

Amen, that is how I see scripture stating it to. :thumbs:

 

I really appreciate your posts guys. Sometimes when I read about all the "stuff" a person needs to do or understand in order to be saved, I think to myself "maybe I'm not really saved", because when I was saved I didn't know anything except that I was a sinner in need of a Savior. I didn't understand much of anything. I didn't know what repentance was (although that's what I did) or any of the other "words" that Christians use. But I know that God has saved me because His Spirit testifies to me that He did!

:godisgood:

 

I think 1 Cor. 15:36-37 is clearly talking about our bodies being the seed for a resurrection body. This is a similar metaphor, but the subject is different.

The image of baptism is that of dying with Jesus and thus being forgiven for sins. I don't see it as dying to self in the sense of deeper dedication.

As for 1 Cor. 15:29, your guess is as good as mine on the meaning of THAT verse!! But at a minimum, it's talking about water baptism and not dedication, as in Paul's phrase "I did daily."

I agree.

RC may be coming from the perspective of Lordship salvation. In my experience LS advocates don't like to talk about the possibility of further dedication after salvation. If further dedication as needed after salvation, then I guess Christ wasn't "made Lord" at salvation. I think Rom. 12:1 belies that, since it is telling "brethren," not lost people, to offer their bodies as a living sacrifice--an act of complete dedication.

I'm almost with you. Where I would differ is in your statement that "my spirit, 'infected' as it is by the flesh...." I would amend that to say soul instead of spirit, being a trichotomist. I believe that the spirit of a saved man is what is made alive at salvation, and thus pure, and the place within us where the Holy Spirit lives. The soul and body are still infected by the sin nature.

 

All I see is, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved..."

 

I take this to mean the same as Acts 20:21, though worded differently.

I don't believe Paul would've told the jailer one thing and the Ephesians another.

 

Yes, I believe we need to keep that distinction between what is required in Salvation and what is required in Sanctification.

 

Then we have our definitions switched around. Your definition of spirit is how I define soul. I delineate the spirit as that part of us which can communicate with God, the soul as that part of us that can communicate with other people, and the body as that part of us that can communcate with nature. (Oversimplifying, I know.)

Consider about the spirit that it is what is mentiioned in connection with prayer (Matt. 26:41, 1 Cor. 14:14-15, etc.). Bu you probably don't want to derail the thread with a trichotomy discussion.

 

It would be fun to discuss, but I'll have to take a rain check. I preach at a youth camp Friday and Saturday, along with having to get ready for Sunday, so I'll not post much for a few days.

 

Thank you. :wavey:

 

Good grief, man...where are your priorities?






God bless @ camp.