Isolated but taught

[Frogman]

Dear Brethren,
If you were isolated in some part of the world and all you had concerning the things we discuss argue, defend and refute on a daily basis was the word of God, what would be the basic beliefs you would draw from that word?

Consider your simple reading of the word of God; for sake of this thread throwout all your theological studies, any writing of men you have read etc. Take into your consideration what conclusions would you come to with no source but scripture alone left in your hands for reading?

Bro. Dallas

 

[Phillip]

Which translation?

 

[Frogman]

Got me there

I was thinking something like Swahili, you know that God knows all languages, after all he is the one that confused the tongues of men.

I don't really think it would matter, but you can assume what ever is your personal favorite being translated because I would hope and I believe you would too that whatever translation we use that we have confidence that God has preserved the integrity of his word.

So, choose which ever (As for me, the KJV, but not doggedly ONLYISM).

What would your conclusions be?

bro. Dallas

 

[vaspers]

Are you trying to start a new denomination:

The First Church of the Reformed Isolationist Bible Only Revelationists?

Can vaspers be a deacon in it, and teach Sunday Sabbath school to jr. high kids?

 

[Frogman]

Hang on, I will bring this before the church and let you know what they decide

discussion, debate, arguing, three families separate and start their own church, more debate, more discussion, the issue is tabled until the next business meeting, more arguing, two more families move their letters to the church of the former members, more debate, nearly missed a shooting, some more loud talking, only one family attending services, no discussion, they won't even talk to each other, giving some thought to the motion to ordain vaspers deacon, song leader, Sunday School director, teacher, pianist, the one family left in the church attends only 2x month unless the church agrees to consider someone besides vaspers, but no member of this family feels lead of God to do any of this in the church, now having to rent the back part of the assembly hall to Pentecostal Seventh Day Holiness Baptists, can't make a decision because all the shouting and shaking of the building, decide to notify vaspers he is elected, adjourn and go home until more people are interested in attending our services.

Hey, Vasper, yeah, you got it

Just send me a letter of statement of faith, doctrinal statement from your current church and proof of at least 2000 yrs. claiming the only authorized baptism to be found with in your local body alone...looking forward to sweet fellowship with you, provided you can supply us with satisfaction that your previous baptism was a true scriptural immersion.

Send the letter as soon as ya can, I will have to present this to the church also

 

[Frogman]

Hang on, I will bring this before the church and let you know what they decide

discussion, debate, arguing, three families separate and start their own church, more debate, more discussion, the issue is tabled until the next business meeting, more arguing, two more families move their letters to the church of the former members, more debate, nearly missed a shooting, some more loud talking, only one family attending services, no discussion, they won't even talk to each other, giving some thought to the motion to ordain vaspers deacon, song leader, Sunday School director, teacher, pianist, the one family left in the church attends only 2x month unless the church agrees to consider someone besides vaspers, but no member of this family feels lead of God to do any of this in the church, now having to rent the back part of the assembly hall to Pentecostal Seventh Day Holiness Baptists, can't make a decision because all the shouting and shaking of the building, decide to notify vaspers he is elected, adjourn and go home until more people are interested in attending our services.

Hey, Vasper, yeah, you got it

Just send me a letter of statement of faith, doctrinal statement from your current church and proof of at least 2000 yrs. claiming the only authorized baptism to be found with in your local body alone...looking forward to sweet fellowship with you, provided you can supply us with satisfaction that your previous baptism was a true scriptural immersion.

Send the letter as soon as ya can, I will have to present this to the church for approval also

 

[Frogman]

Hang on, I will bring this before the church and let you know what they decide

discussion, debate, arguing, three families separate and start their own church, more debate, more discussion, the issue is tabled until the next business meeting, more arguing, two more families move their letters to the church of the former members, more debate, nearly missed a shooting, some more loud talking, only one family attending services, no discussion, they won't even talk to each other, giving some thought to the motion to ordain vaspers deacon, song leader, Sunday School director, teacher, pianist, the one family left in the church attends only 2x month unless the church agrees to consider someone besides vaspers, but no member of this family feels lead of God to do any of this in the church, now having to rent the back part of the assembly hall to Pentecostal Seventh Day Holiness Baptists, can't make a decision because all the shouting and shaking of the building, decide to notify vaspers he is elected, adjourn and go home until more people are interested in attending our services.

Hey, Vasper, yeah, you got it

Just send me a letter of statement of faith, doctrinal statement from your current church and proof of at least 2000 yrs. claiming the only authorized baptism to be found with in your local body alone...looking forward to sweet fellowship with you, provided you can supply us with satisfaction that your previous baptism was a true scriptural immersion.

Send the letter as soon as ya can, I will have to present this to the church for approval also

 

[Elijah]

Originally posted by Frogman:
Dear Brethren,
If you were isolated in some part of the world and all you had concerning the things we discuss argue, defend and refute on a daily basis was the word of God, what would be the basic beliefs you would draw from that word?

Consider your simple reading of the word of God; for sake of this thread throwout all your theological studies, any writing of men you have read etc. Take into your consideration what conclusions would you come to with no source but scripture alone left in your hands for reading?

Bro. Dallas

Very good question Bro. Dallas, and one I have contemplated many times. To be totally honest, I dont really know. I say that in the sense that I have been a Baptist all my life, and thereforem greatly influenced by my raising. That being said, I do not blindly agree with everything taught as doctrine within within my association, example; closed communion, insisting on rebaptizing ptential church members with a non Baptist Baptism. I am however strong on the security of the believer belief. But without any outside influence from day 1, except a bible? Honestly cant say(very good, make you think question though).

 

[Frogman]

Thank you brother Elijah,
I have thought about this before also.

I have read that Bible Scholars from various denominations have said that anyone in this position would be comfortable among the Baptists simply because of the use and context of baptism must be by immersion.

I did not grow up among the Baptists but among the First Church of God, United Methodists, Cumberland Presbyterians, and my parents and grandparents have expressed worry because of my belief in eternal surety of the believer. Both for myself and those to whom I teach this (and for my own soul on account of that teaching).

Since I as you, have never faced this question practically, we cannot say what we would come away with, but I do believe we can make some general statements that just may be accurate enough.

I can say that though I have always been among churches trying to fulfill the great commission, that one thing I would have understood, because I did, that regeneration is by the Holy Spirit alone.

I never really heard of 'gospel regeneration' until coming to the missionary baptists. But that is because other denominations have been drawing away from any doctrinal teaching for quite some time now.

I will be thinking about this question and will try to post at least a short list in the morning before leaving for work.

You can read my profile and you will know what I believe.

Thanks for the reply.
Bro. Dallas

 

[russell55]

Take into your consideration what conclusions would you come to with no source but scripture alone left in your hands for reading?

I don't think any of us can really answer this question. How would we know? How can we separate out what we were taught from the time before we could even read for ourselves?

I don't think God intended us to be left alone with only scripture. This isn't to say that what we believe shouldn't come from scripture, but we also stand on the shoulders of those who went before us, and that is God's plan. Its called the fellowship of the saints--we all participate in something together, and part of that is participating in learning from each other, being taught by others. It's part of the reason we are told not to neglect joining in with other believers--so we can be instructed and corrected and grow in the faith through the contribution of others.

God does not leave us to figure things out on our own from scripture. He sent Philip to the Ethiopian eunuch to explain things. We are not lone rangers, nor should we be.

 

[Frogman]

Thank you Russell55,
A very sound and solid answer. I think you are right. But I also believe there are those in the world with perhaps no more than the scriptures without our various slants.

I agree because of our experiences we cannot really answer this question, however, I have often thought it.

At least think back to your childhood before you were affected by Calvinistic teaching etc. and try to remember the simple faith you had when reading the word of God.

As for me I distinctly remember not being able to understand the OT beyond its view as history. I distinctly remember understanding the scripture to teach that we ought to tell others about Jesus, but at the same time I distinctly remember being satisfied that the Spirit alone preached the gospel and regenerated any who were saved. (Galatians 3.8).

Now, I know a doctrine cannot be built upon one passage alone; but I don't think this is the only place this can be seen.

Anyway, that is how I meant the question.

Thanks for your post. I enjoyed reading it for the wise words they were.

Please don't think I am trying to be a lone ranger

Bro. Dallas

 

[vaspers]

I try to destroy, set on fire, flush down the toilet, and cut into pieces any non-biblical theology that may have invaded my mind...

...your question is not hard to answer.

In fact, we should all REJECT all tradition and focus only on what the Bible teaches.

There is no other faith. There is no other doctrine. There is no other creed.

Thy Word is a light unto my path. We ought to obey God, rather than men. Jesus said, "I have given them Thy Word, and the world has hated them." He did not give traditions of men and seminaries and denominations.

Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by THE WORD OF GOD. Rightly dividing the Word of truth. Given by theo-pneustos God breathed. The Light.

There is no other Christianity than pure Bible Christianity. Forget all the traditions of men.
Use the Word to discern revealed truth from received error.

It's not so hard. Not at all.

This is not to say I have done it completely, or have all the answers. The Word has all the answers, theology and tradition have NONE.

 

[MalkyEL]

Frogman wrote:
Consider your simple reading of the word of God; for sake of this thread throwout all your theological studies, any writing of men you have read etc. Take into your consideration what conclusions would you come to with no source but scripture alone left in your hands for reading?

MalkyEL: WOW! I love this question!!! I did exactly that a year ago - this is too cool. I got sucked up into two deceptive religious movements, one after another and by the sheer, incredible grace of God and the guidence of wonderful friend who God placed in my life just at the right time, I got cranked around in the proper direction.

That meant dumping everything I knew from birth about God and His Word, including all doctrines and traditions - I have only searched His Word for His truth. Of course it's nice to have some helps like concordances and lexicons for the Hebrew and Greek, but if that were not available, His Word is enough [proper translation is important - stick with textus receptus] Also, accountability is a big factor, so I have a couple of really grounded friends who keep on eye on me

The results of that have been incredible. For one thing, the Gospel message is clear and simple.
* Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength.
* Love your neighbor as yourself.
* Submit 100% to God.
* Love His discipline.
* Let your mind be transformed into the likeness of Messiah.
* Be renewed by the cleansing of the Word.
* Allow Him to do a good work and bring the fruit of the Holy Spirit in His season.
* Be obedient at all times to His still small voice.
* Be controlled and led by His Holy Spirit.
* Reach out to those who need help, love, encouragement as He leads.
* Be ready to share the Gospel of Jesus at all times.
* Be armed and ready to stand against evil with His armour.
* Be a watchman on the wall and sound the alarm to warn of enemy advances.
* Give all pre-eminance, glory, honor, praise and worship to the King of Kings and live only for Him.


Hebrews 6:7 7 (For the earth drinking in the rain often coming upon it, and producing vegetation suitable for those for whom it is also worked, receives blessing from God;

 

[russell55]

Please don't think I am trying to be a lone ranger

I didn't really think that at all, so you can turn that into a

.

But I also believe there are those in the world with perhaps no more than the scriptures without our various slants.

So do I, but I am not sure they will be left that way. Not that they will necessarily learn someone's slant, but they will at some point be taught by someone else.

At least think back to your childhood before you were affected by Calvinistic teaching etc. and try to remember the simple faith you had when reading the word of God.

Well, I certainly had a simple trust, if that's what you mean. I'm not sure that is something that has been lost, though. Or at least its something I've regained in the past few years. The more I understand, the more I trust, really.

at the same time I distinctly remember being satisfied that the Spirit alone preached the gospel and regenerated any who were saved.

I do think that the Spirit alone can preach the gospel. I don't think that's the normal means God chooses to use, though. Even with Abraham, there were objective word-pictures given--like the ram, like Melchezidek (sp?), that spoke truths of the gospel in the presence of the Spirit's enlightenment.

I think when Paul says, "How can they believe without hearing, and how can they hear without preaching?" that tells us that the normal means God uses to save is the preaching of the gospel (objective truth telling) in the presence of the enlightenment of the Spirit (subjective truth telling). The two things--as a general rule, but probably not as an absolute rule--go hand in hand in saving us.

That's how it was with me, anyway. (I am copying and pasting this from elsewhere.)

It began for me when I was only 5 or so years old--a little girl, standing on the pew of small Presbyterian church in rural Idaho, listening (believe it or not!) to the sermon. I do not remember the words of the sermon, but somewhere within it was an explanation of Christ’s death on the cross and what it accomplished. In my mind there came an image of my Saviour on the cross, suffering for me, and at that instant I knew, “I need that! I want that!”

There you go. I was only five. An adult sermon on an adult subject. Something I could not possibly really understand, and yet I did. The words of the gospel from the mouth of the preacher were used by the Spirit to draw a word picture that conveyed God's truth to a child's mind and etched conviction of sin and love for Christ in a little girl's heart. The picture would not happen without the words, and it also would not happen without the enlightening work of the Spirit.

I don't even know if this is on topic or not--I'm not sure exactly what it is you are looking for.

(See, I was a Calvinist from my earliest memories--before I could read! I cannot go back before that...)

 

[David Mark]

Originally posted by Frogman:
Dear Brethren,
If you were isolated in some part of the world and all you had concerning the things we discuss argue, defend and refute on a daily basis was the word of God, what would be the basic beliefs you would draw from that word?

Consider your simple reading of the word of God; for sake of this thread throwout all your theological studies, any writing of men you have read etc. Take into your consideration what conclusions would you come to with no source but scripture alone left in your hands for reading?

Bro. Dallas

Here are just a few things I would lean on.

Strive for peace.
Rejoice always.
Pray without ceasing.
Be kind to everyone.
Be gentle and even tenderhearted to everyone.
Be slow to speak.
Be a good listener.
Don't alway lean on my own understanding.
Don't think too highly of myself.
Forgive others as I have been forgiven.
Understand: Not all men have faith.
Understand: False teachers exist.
This is not my home.
Always continue to grow in these and other things.

These are things that no one can pry away from me or cause me to doubt.

Even my worst enemies would be impressed if I was faithful in the simple things.

Dave

 

[pinoybaptist]

Originally posted by Frogman:
Dear Brethren,
If you were isolated in some part of the world and all you had concerning the things we discuss argue, defend and refute on a daily basis was the word of God, what would be the basic beliefs you would draw from that word?

Bro. Dallas

If that Word was meant for me then in due time the Holy Spirit will reveal His truths about Himself, about me, about mercy, about redemption, and about repbrobation. But if it were not meant for me, I might come to the same conclusion one at another board did: that Jesus and Satan are one and the same, based on Isaiah 45:7.

 

[Frogman]

Thanks Russell55,
You have my sympathy for not being able to understand the frog in a fog .

Your post is exactly what I meant and I realize it is difficult to read my mind. So, just because something is crystal clear to me in my mind doesn't mean that is going to be the case for anyone else.

Enjoyed reading your experience. I agree with you, our youngest son, now 12 had a similar experience though he was 7 at the time. There were some who made the arguement that he could not understand, but as Bro. pinyobaptist said, if the word is meant for a person (paraphrased). It will not return to God void.

Thanks to all who have responded. I enjoy reading these things produced by simple faith.

May God Bless all in this day he has given.

Bro. Dallas

 

[texmedic]

My belief in the Word would be dependent upon whether or not the Spirit enlightened me to it. If not, I would no doubt be blind and could not see, and would have ears but could not hear. But thank God He predestined me to be born where I was born, and to *hear* the Word, and have *eyes* to see. I have faith that He will reach everyone of His elect, without fail....... but I was predestined to have that faith.......

 

[Frogman]

So too were you predestined to participate in this thread

I agree with you brother

Brother Dallas

 

[texmedic]

Dallas........ you can't tell i'm of the reformed belief can you? lol I love the doctrines of grace