Israel's Purpose

[liafailrock]

Too bad I'm not Baptist; nothing wrong implied. Just that I am not one, but seeing a thread about Israel and it's role in the scheme of things, and the confusion regarding it, I had to say this much about Isarel in the non-Baptist area of this board:

I think the whole confusion regarding Israel's role in the scheme of things is based on misunderstanding of
1) The whole point of the bible
2) The purpose of Israel in God's plan of redemption and His Kingdom

I have no time now to elaborate unless everyone here wants a few books worth of posting, and even then I consider myself one with basic understanding. It takes a long time to filter thru churchiosity and traditions of men to get down to the core truth only to find that a great deal of what is taught is not true, but rather an aberration of the truth or mixture from other religions that infiltrated Israel (and hence later the church).

However, that said, the starting point to understanding Israel are all those promises to the patriarchs found in the bible.

As for the church, you can't separate it from the foundation of Israel. Israel is the model of God's government on earth and indeed, is the start of it just as our fleshy bodies, although does not inherit the Kingdom, is what is sown and raised in glory for the Kingdom.

Here's another example: Most think the gospel is being saved from sin, perhaps to live a victorious life pleasing God and for fellowship making the world a better place, and then we all die and go to heaven so we don't end up in hell. Are you saved? Great! The master mechanic fixed us. But to claim that is the only gospel is akin to having your banged-up car fixed and then we marvel at the mechanic without ever driving the car again. A car is meant to be driven as if it is new. Likewise, you were delivered to return you to your former estate. No, it's not about dying and going to heaven. It's about resurrection and the life eternal we were supposed to have from the start.

The purpose of the church is to rule and reign as Kings and priests (thus teachers) in the Kingdom (aka millennium). Then more then can be saved and a greater harvest (foreshadowed by the feast of Tabernacles) and the greatest harvest yet after on the Last Great Day (the last day of the feast). Revelation calls it the Great White Throne Judgement.

Now, most people don't even know this that is clearly stated in scripture about the church. So let me assure you it's just as confusing regarding Israel. This is why there's OSAS vs "loose your salvation" people, and Called to salvation (predestination) vs free choice people, and replacement theology people vs Israel is still in the game people. You know why? They are like that parable of the blind men each describing the same elephant differently. They are ALL right. They are ALL wrong , because they "prophesy in part".

Now while I did not really contribute to the solution as to the purpose of Israel today, I do want to make people understand just a glimpse of what they are up against. So..... carry on (but not too loudly) LOL

 

[MennoSota]

[emoji15]

 

[liafailrock]

 

[BobRyan]

Too bad I'm not Baptist; nothing wrong implied. Just that I am not one, but seeing a thread about Israel and it's role in the scheme of things, and the confusion regarding it, I had to say this much about Isarel in the non-Baptist area of this board:

I think the whole confusion regarding Israel's role in the scheme of things is based on misunderstanding of
1) The whole point of the bible
2) The purpose of Israel in God's plan of redemption and His Kingdom

I have no time now to elaborate unless everyone here wants a few books worth of posting, and even then I consider myself one with basic understanding. It takes a long time to filter thru churchiosity and traditions of men to get down to the core truth only to find that a great deal of what is taught is not true, but rather an aberration of the truth or mixture from other religions that infiltrated Israel (and hence later the church).

However, that said, the starting point to understanding Israel are all those promises to the patriarchs found in the bible.

As for the church, you can't separate it from the foundation of Israel. Israel is the model of God's government on earth and indeed, is the start of it just as our fleshy bodies, although does not inherit the Kingdom, is what is sown and raised in glory for the Kingdom.

Here's another example: Most think the gospel is being saved from sin, perhaps to live a victorious life pleasing God and for fellowship making the world a better place, and then we all die and go to heaven so we don't end up in hell. Are you saved? Great! The master mechanic fixed us. But to claim that is the only gospel is akin to having your banged-up car fixed and then we marvel at the mechanic without ever driving the car again. A car is meant to be driven as if it is new. Likewise, you were delivered to return you to your former estate. No, it's not about dying and going to heaven. It's about resurrection and the life eternal we were supposed to have from the start.

The purpose of the church is to rule and reign as Kings and priests (thus teachers) in the Kingdom (aka millennium). Then more then can be saved and a greater harvest (foreshadowed by the feast of Tabernacles) and the greatest harvest yet after on the Last Great Day (the last day of the feast). Revelation calls it the Great White Throne Judgement.

Now, most people don't even know this that is clearly stated in scripture about the church. So let me assure you it's just as confusing regarding Israel. This is why there's OSAS vs "loose your salvation" people, and Called to salvation (predestination) vs free choice people, and replacement theology people vs Israel is still in the game people. You know why? They are like that parable of the blind men each describing the same elephant differently. They are ALL right. They are ALL wrong , because they "prophesy in part".

Now while I did not really contribute to the solution as to the purpose of Israel today, I do want to make people understand just a glimpse of what they are up against. So..... carry on (but not too loudly) LOL

1. The purpose of the church is to evangelize, spread the Gospel - "THIS Gospel of the kingdom shall be spread through all the World - and THEN shall the end come" Matt 24. "We are ambassadors for Christ.. we beg you on behalf of Christ BE reconciled to God" 2 Cor 5. Matt 28 "GO into all the world and make disciples of all nations"

2. The purpose of Israel was to be the nation-church of God - His evangelists "Salvation is of the Jews" John 4. They failed. They continue to fail at that today.

 

[liafailrock]

1. The purpose of the church is to evangelize, spread the Gospel - "THIS Gospel of the kingdom shall be spread through all the World - and THEN shall the end come" Matt 24. "We are ambassadors for Christ.. we beg you on behalf of Christ BE reconciled to God" 2 Cor 5. Matt 28 "GO into all the world and make disciples of all nations"

2. The purpose of Israel was to be the nation-church of God - His evangelists "Salvation is of the Jews" John 4. They failed. They continue to fail at that today.

I think we're saying the same thing here, but this can be expanded to fill in many details not commonly heard. In this age, the gospel of the Kingdom will be proclaimed as stated. In that age the purpose of the church is to then rule and reign with Christ as Kings and priests thus teaching the people of the world. Christ is the Head in which others will rule with Him according to where each member is placed to rule (i.e. over a few or many or over some or many cities). Many more will get salvation in this great harvest.

Regarding point #2, we can see the church as it now stands destined to fulfill the Judah-Levi anti-type of Israel. While the Jew does not have the birthright, they are of the tribal lineage of Kings and as such get to inherit and rule over that which the tribe of Joseph inherited, which was the promise of multitudes. They come later. Physically, I do not ascribe the Jew only as physical sons of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and as such did not inherit all the promises meant to go to (the rest) Israel (for example this is why Jews never became multitudes of peoples -- that was promised to the tribe of Joseph), and spiritually I see the same path being taken and indeed originates from Israel as a whole.

 

[MennoSota]

The purpose of the church is to love God and worship Him forever. The church is the body of Christ.
The job of the church is to be ambassadors of the Kingdom, sharing the message of reconciliation. (2 Corinthians 5)

 

[liafailrock]

The purpose of the church is to love God and worship Him forever. The church is the body of Christ.
The job of the church is to be ambassadors of the Kingdom, sharing the message of reconciliation. (2 Corinthians 5)

Yes, in part that's the church's purpose. That goes without saying in the function that God's people have in the Coming Kingdom when Christ comes again to later claim the throne of King David. And it even goes beyond the millennium. There's more.

 

[MennoSota]

Yes, in part that's the church's purpose. That goes without saying in the function that God's people have in the Coming Kingdom when Christ comes again to later claim the throne of King David. And it even goes beyond the millennium. There's more.

I am only concerned with our present purpose. I'll let God work out the future details.

 

[liafailrock]

I am only concerned with our present purpose. I'll let God work out the future details.

Well, friend, God already worked them out, and He lets us know what they are. However I agree that in the present we are to do what we are commanded to do here. That's our training grounds.

 

[BobRyan]

I think we're saying the same thing here, but this can be expanded to fill in many details not commonly heard. In this age, the gospel of the Kingdom will be proclaimed as stated. In that age the purpose of the church is to then rule and reign with Christ as Kings and priests thus teaching the people of the world. .

In the Rev 19-Rev 20:1-5 second coming event we see the resurrection and rapture of the church - taken to heaven to be with Christ. At this point the saints sit on thrones and judgment is given to them...

At this time also they "rule with a rod of iron" (Another term for judgment) - 26 He who overcomes, and he who keeps My deeds until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations; 27 and he shall rule them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of the potter are broken to pieces, as I also have received authority from My Father; 28 and I will give him the morning star. 29 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’

There is "no mercy in a rod of iron" -- just judgment and breaking into pieces.

BEFORE that time you have Rev 15:8 where the sanctuary in heaven is shut down, no mediator -- only the Rev 16 seven last plagues. This is not a time of evangelism - only of judgment.

Noah locked inside the ark for 7 days -- then the flood for 40 days then the waters subsiding for a year -- all of that time - no evangelism for those outside the ark.

 

[liafailrock]

In the Rev 19-Rev 20:1-5 second coming event we see the resurrection and rapture of the church - taken to heaven to be with Christ. At this point the saints sit on thrones and judgment is given to them...

At this time also they "rule with a rod of iron" (Another term for judgment) - 26 He who overcomes, and he who keeps My deeds until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations; 27 and he shall rule them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of the potter are broken to pieces, as I also have received authority from My Father; 28 and I will give him the morning star. 29 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’

There is "no mercy in a rod of iron" -- just judgment and breaking into pieces.

BEFORE that time you have Rev 15:8 where the sanctuary in heaven is shut down, no mediator -- only the Rev 16 seven last plagues. This is not a time of evangelism - only of judgment.

Noah locked inside the ark for 7 days -- then the flood for 40 days then the waters subsiding for a year -- all of that time - no evangelism for those outside the ark.

Not sure of your point. And if Christ comes back how will the church be in heaven? We will be with Christ, and heaven is coming to earth.

 

[BobRyan]

Not sure of your point. And if Christ comes back how will the church be in heaven? We will be with Christ, and heaven is coming to earth.

"I go to prepare a place for you" John 14... "in My Father's house" - so Christ "Comes again" to take the saints to heaven - to the place He has prepared for us -- that happens when He "comes again" as John 14 says.. we call it "the second coming".

1 Thess 4 says that when He comes He takes us all to heaven "so shall we ever be WITH the Lord" -- in heaven for that 1000 years.

In 1Thess 4 "the dead in Christ rise FIRST" -- in Rev 20:1-5 "The FIRST resurrection" is that of the "blessed and holy ... over these the second death has no power". It is the saints of all ages.

 

[liafailrock]

"I go to prepare a place for you" John 14... "in My Father's house" - so Christ "Comes again" to take the saints to heaven - to the place He has prepared for us -- that happens when He "comes again" as John 14 says.. we call it "the second coming".

1 Thess 4 says that when He comes He takes us all to heaven "so shall we ever be WITH the Lord" -- in heaven for that 1000 years.

In 1Thess 4 "the dead in Christ rise FIRST" -- in Rev 20:1-5 "The FIRST resurrection" is that of the "blessed and holy ... over these the second death has no power". It is the saints of all ages.

Yeah we have differing views on eschatology.