I've never known a Calvinist...Part 2

[Joseph_Botwinick]

who believed he could lose his salvation. I have known, however, many Arminians who did.

And so I was asking myself, are they considering themselves saved because of their good works and their own righteousness or because of what Christ has done for them?

I am not trying to be sarcastic. I know the Arminians here would never claim that you have to be good enough to be saved, or even stayed saved. But I am wondering if some Arminians simply trust in their own goodness to save them and to keep them saved.

I can criticize our side just as sharply because some use the doctrines of Grace as a lincense to sin just as they did in the days of Paul...and others use the doctrine of election to justify not witnessing in direct disobedience to Christ Commands...which as we all know, to be fair, is not what Calvinism and the Bible teach.

I think about these things...


Joseph Botwinick

[ March 21, 2006, 12:16 AM: Message edited by: Joseph_Botwinick ]

 

[donnA]

I don't know about people here, but I know a couple of armenians who believe their works had something to do with their salvation and that their works have something to do with keeping their salvation.

 

[npetreley]

Now that you mention it, I know lots of people who think their works are what keeps their salvation. Many of them would not admit it if you put it that way, but it's evident from what they say in conversations. Others actually admit it.

I wish I could remember who put it this way, but that's like saying grace equates to: "Here I'll give you this free Mercedes Benz. All you have to do to keep it is pay me $1,000 per month."

I read that so long ago, it was probably more like $200 per month.

 

[J.D.]

Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
who believed he could lose his salvation. I have known, however, many Arminians who did.

And so I was asking myself, are they considering themselves saved because of their good works and their own righteousness or because of what Christ has done for them?

I am not trying to be sarcastic. I know the Arminians here would never claim that you have to be good enough to be saved, or even stayed saved. But I am wondering if some Arminians simply trust in their own goodness to save them and to keep them saved.

I can criticize our side just as sharply because some use the doctrines of Grace as a lincense to sin just as they did in the days of Paul...and others use the doctrine of election to justify not witnessing in direct disobedience to Christ Commands...which as we all know, to be fair, is not what Calvinism and the Bible teach.

I think about these things...


Joseph Botwinick

My research of Christian history has led me to conclude that the Calvinist branch has consistently been the most faithful and separated group of all. You've heard of the Puritans? The complaint against them was not antinomianism, but legalism.

The number of Calvinists that do not practice separation or evangelism is, I beieve, very small.

Now I'll admit that as a Calvinist, I do not feel compeled to keep all the man-made rules that some people seem to think are so important. I detest wine, and so I do not drink it, but what if I did? Some of you would faint if I were to advocate the same thing Paul did to Timothy, that he should no longer drink water, but a little wine. I do, however, love beer and always have. Now don't faint. I have not drank a beer in 30 years, nor do I plan to re-start it. The reason I don't drink beer even though I love it is because I will not use liberty to cause someone to fall.

I'm rambling now so I'll just stop.