Jew is a religous term only

[webdog]

If I were a "jew" how would I know I am related to Abraham? By what proof would I know? No man can know who the Israelites are. The jews pretend they are but certainly cannot prove it. You have yet to give any proof of this assumption. Christ was an Israelite who followed the pure law. If you would have read the original post I already addressed this topic. Christians don't replace anything, Christians are the ONLY people that will be saved. FYI Abraham was a Christian. You clearly have no concept of what the bible is about.

Jews have been meticulous in passing down oral tradition and lineage. How did Paul know he was a Jew? Even after his conversion, he STILL considered himself a Jew...why?

Gal. 2:15 "We are Jews by nature (or birth) and not sinners from among the Gentiles;

How is someone a Christian by nature (or birth)?

 

[ShotGunWillie]

They are one in the same in manner of a nation, not religion.

Something has skewed your sense of logic and reasoning.

So is Greek a nation or a Religion?

 

[ShotGunWillie]

Jews have been meticulous in passing down oral tradition and lineage. How did Paul know he was a Jew? Even after his conversion, he STILL considered himself a Jew...why?

Gal. 2:15 "We are Jews by nature (or birth) and not sinners from among the Gentiles;

How is someone a Christian by nature (or birth)?

What religion is Gentile?

 

[Martin Luther]

Jews have been meticulous in passing down oral tradition and lineage. How did Paul know he was a Jew? Even after his conversion, he STILL considered himself a Jew...why?

Gal. 2:15 "We are Jews by nature (or birth) and not sinners from among the Gentiles;

How is someone a Christian by nature (or birth)?

That was Paul, and at best only Israelites of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi lived in Israel at the time of Christ. There is still no way an Israelite can trace their heritage to Abraham, it has been 2000 years since Paul. They can believe it but they can never prove it.
Do you know what it takes to become a jew today? It takes a one year RELIGIOUS course and at the end of that you can move to Israel if you want to. It still has nothing to do with blood. Paul was born a jew the same way many Catholics say they were born Catholic. Paul said that he became as a jew that he might win the jews.




1 Corinthians 9:20
And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;


You see, again, being a jew is a referrence to those who follow the law. Do you pressume that ALL Israelites practiced the law? Not a chance. There were many Israelites that were not jews.

 

[Martin Luther]

What religion is Gentile?

Again, this was covered in the first post. Did you actually read it? A gentile is another name for heathen. If you did not practice the law you were a heathen to the jews.

 

[ShotGunWillie]

What were Gentiles before there were Jews? So Jews can be Gentiles?

 

[Martin Luther]

What were Gentiles before there were Jews? So Jews can be Gentiles?

Believe it or not, there have always been heathens. I'd say Cain could be the father of the gentiles.

 

[ShotGunWillie]

Abraham was the first Jew, he was a Gentile

This is discussion is giving me tired head. You and I will never agree on this solely based on your belief that a Jew and an Israelite are not the same; basically the preservation that was promised to the Jew is no longer in place is what I gather from your discussion points.

But like I said, we won't agree on this.......

 

[ShotGunWillie]

I am a manager of a 3 shift department and often times I have to work 3rd shift. Which, after working from 6 to 4 the very day I have to work 3rd, it wears me out, so this may not make much sense, but I found that it pertains to the current conversation, debate, discussion.

I have a new employee I haven't had the honor of speaking with on an informal basis. I found out that he is in fact a Jew, his mother is a Levite. His father's side he hasn't traced back far enough yet, a work still yet in progess.

In 1955 his family moved from Europe to Israel, he lived there until 1983. His family converted to Christianity, while in Israel. He considers himself a Jew as well as a Christian, perhaps you have heard of Messianic Jews. That is how he refers to himself.

He believes himself to be both a Jew and an Israelite because they are one in the same. "You can convert to Judaism, but that doesn't mean you are a Jew", "You are born a Jew and choose to follow Christ"

So, I guess I met an Israelite tonight.......

 

[Martin Luther]

Abraham was the first Jew, he was a Gentile

This is discussion is giving me tired head. You and I will never agree on this solely based on your belief that a Jew and an Israelite are not the same; basically the preservation that was promised to the Jew is no longer in place is what I gather from your discussion points.

But like I said, we won't agree on this.......

The promise found in the O.T. was made to Israelites, which in truth are those who are obedient but that is another discussion. I have given you verses which clearly show non-Israelites becoming JEWS. You on the other hand have given me NO verses to prove that a jew and an Israelite are one in the same.


My point is this; the promise made to Abraham is fulfilled through Christ. The only way to the Father is through the Son. Only those of the Spirit can see God. God destroyed many Israelites for a lack of obedience. It wasn't their blood type that saved them it was their obedience to God that saved them. Abraham is the father of ALL who are obedient unto the faith. The Israel of the future is also the church, they are one in the same. We are married to Messiah, and rule with Him if we overcome as He overcame. A jew was simply those who converted to the law just like in Esther 8:17. Sure many Israelites were jews, but many were not.

 

[webdog]

The promise found in the O.T. was made to Israelites, which in truth are those who are obedient but that is another discussion. I have given you verses which clearly show non-Israelites becoming JEWS.

No gentile has ever been referred to as a jew. They became prosylytes...God Fearers. The promise, btw, was to Abraham who's descendants became the Iraelites, and even in their times of disobedience (which was pretty much the majority of the time), God's promises remained, and they never became anything but His people.

You on the other hand have given me NO verses to prove that a jew and an Israelite are one in the same.

I showed you exactly how Paul used the phrases interchangeably in Romans.

My point is this; the promise made to Abraham is fulfilled through Christ. The only way to the Father is through the Son. Only those of the Spirit can see God. God destroyed many Israelites for a lack of obedience. It wasn't their blood type that saved them it was their obedience to God that saved them.

Gentiles were saved in the same manner, and they weren't Jews. Where was Rahab the prostitute ever called a Jew?

Abraham is the father of ALL who are obedient unto the faith.

Spiritually, yes...physically, no. The Messiah had to come through this line, so the physical was just as important.

The Israel of the future is also the church, they are one in the same.

Replacement Theology is false doctrine easily refuted by Romans 9 - 11.

A jew was simply those who converted to the law just like in Esther 8:17. Sure many Israelites were jews, but many were not.

This is silly...ALL Israelites were jewish.

 

[Jedi Knight]

GUP20"Jesus WAS saved by following The Law" Jesus was SAVED??? From what??:type:

 

[Gup20]

GUP20"Jesus WAS saved by following The Law" Jesus was SAVED??? From what??:type:

Acts 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

Saved from death and hell, which was the default fate for all human beings - even the Saints which came before such as David the Psalmist.

 

[Gup20]

Abraham was the first Jew, he was a Gentile

This is discussion is giving me tired head. You and I will never agree on this solely based on your belief that a Jew and an Israelite are not the same; basically the preservation that was promised to the Jew is no longer in place is what I gather from your discussion points.

But like I said, we won't agree on this.......

Actually, Abraham was the first Christian.... first person saved by Grace through faith in Jesus Christ. At least, that's what scripture says:

Gal 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Gen 15:5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

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Genesis 17 goes on to establish God's covenant with Abraham - that he would be the father of many nations. Genesis 17 has the phrase "thee, and thy seed" 6 times throughout the establishment of the "Jewish Covenant".

Yes, I think Jew and Israelite are the same thing, but I do not believe the promises - even those of preservation - were to the Jews, but were in fact to Abraham's seed - which is Christ. Therefore, those who are "in Christ" are heirs according to the promise.

Gal 3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
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