The word 'men' is printed cursive. Why?
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John 12:32: "all" -- what?
- Thread starter Gerhard Ebersoehn
- Start date
His Blood Spoke My Name
New Member
The word 'men' is not cursive, it is italicized.
Italicized words were inserted for clarity.
Jesus said He would draw all unto Him. It is better understood when 'men' is inserted.
Italicized words were inserted for clarity.
Jesus said He would draw all unto Him. It is better understood when 'men' is inserted.
But BobRyan thinks I'm mad when I say it also means Jesus drew "all things-pantas" like all the prophecies and promises of God, to Him and in Him together. "Him that filleth all in all" (Eph1:23; Col3:11).
In any case, Jesus meant with His resurrection, rather than with His death, because it says, "I I be lifted up out of the earth", rather than 'from the earth' (ek tehs gehs). Now if 'all men' are 'drawn' 'to' Him, in His resurrection' all people must be saved everlastingly and no ever get lost, because through His resurrection it's full and final redemption at stake. Again the Greek has "before Me" -- rather than 'to Me'. So a judgment scene is created rather than a picture of eternal bliss.
I simply say this text does not say everybody is saved or just called - much less every person born hears the Gospel.
It's not true; and it belies the words of Jesus.
I simply say this text does not say everybody is saved or just called - much less every person born hears the Gospel.
It's not true; and it belies the words of Jesus.
His Blood Spoke My Name said:
GE:
... not 'cursive', but 'italicized' ... thanks. I looked it up, it means to write with letters jointed or joined? It's my Afrikaans; we speak of 'italicised' as 'cursive'. Thanks in any case.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
2 Peter 3 "God is not willing for ANY to perish but for ALL to come to repentance".
Romans 3 "ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"
John 12:32 "If I am lifted up I will draw ALL unto Me"
With some determination and effort you can twist these texts around so that "ALL" is NOT really "ALL" if the man-made tradition you hold to does not prefer it to really mean ALL --
In Christ,
Bob
By what determination and effort are you going to say that not ANY will perish but ALL shall come to repentance? Is the will of God frustrated? Can it be frustrated? Let's hear your opinion of God; then let us hear your opinion of bad bad men.
BobRyan said:
BobRyan said:
GE:
"All", is all what "all" means - no more, no less; and not, "every man". It is you, who inserts, 'men', after John's "all". You are a human. So you are the one who prefers 'man-made traditions' to God's Word -- who prefers his own whims above God's Word.
BobRyan said:
BobRyan said:
GE:
It's not you and I only on this thread. I have no argument with you, but with error.
2 Peter 3:9, "God is not willing for ANY to perish but for ALL to come to repentance".
Why don't you present the context? "The Lord is longsuffering to US-WARD, not willing that any (of US) should perish ..."
Why don't you mention the MANY indications of God's WILL towards, or for, the wicked in 2Peter? E.g. virtually the whole of the second chapter? Does your 'all' include the "scoffers" mentioned in 3:3? Do you say God is not willing that the scoffers should perish? What idea do you entertain of God's holiness?
Do you say that God is not willing that the "willingly ignorant" (3:5) should not perish? THEN YOU DENY YOUR OWN DOCTRINE THAT MAN ONLY BY HIS OWN WILL, PERISHES!
Romans 3 "ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"
A fact nobody can help to observe or admit. What does it help your interpretation of "all" in 3:9? iT BLOWS IT AWAY!
So it's of no avail you repeat Jn12:32 to create the impression you have so many Scriptures to your credit! We're not that blind.
I conclude someone else besides me has to take up his argument with Peter or whoever wrote it -- God perhaps?
BobRyan said:
BobRyan said:
GE:
As soon as the ball is returned your way, you knock it forwards, knowing it stops the game.