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Featured John 3:16, The Meaning of "kosmos"

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by ThyWordIsTruth, Aug 27, 2020.

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  1. ThyWordIsTruth

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    For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.”

    Here some would have us believe, that the Greek word, “kosmos”, which is rendered “world” in all English versions of the Bible, should take on a limited, special sense of the world, as to only refer to "the elect". It is assumed, that, because there are instances in Scripture, where “kosmos” is used in the sense, where the entire world is not intended (and I will not deny that this is indeed true), that this warrants this limited use in our present text. Is this a valid argument? The present context will prove beyond any doubt, that this is not only not the case, but, if anyone would press this limited meaning here, to apply only to the “elect”, then it causes them problems.

    Firstly, it might be shown, that there is not a single Greek lexicon that I know of, that says that “kosmos” here has a meaning that does not mean the “whole world” (that is, “everyone without exception).

    J H Thayer

    the inhabitants of the earth, the human race” (Lexicon, p.357)

    W Ardnt & F Gingrich

    the world as mankind…of all mankind, but especially of believers, as the objects of God’s love” (Lexicon, p.447)

    Edward Robinson

    the world for the inhabitants of the earth, men mankind” (Lexicon, p.440)

    John Parkhurst

    The world, i.e. the whole race of mankind, both believers and unbelievers, both good and bad” (Lexicon, p.336)

    S T Bloomfield

    “the world for its inhabitants, mankind” (Greek Lexicon, p. 227)

    G Kittle and G Friedrich

    “The cosmos is the universe (Jn.3:16-17, Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, One Vol. Ed., p. 464)

    W E Vine

    “the human race, mankind” (Expository Dictionary, p. 685)

    Are we to assume that all of the above lexicons are wrong in the meanings that they give for “kosmos”? There is no doubt to the honest mind, that the use of “kosmos” here can only mean “the whole human race”. To make it mean something less, is a distortion of the facts!

    In our immediate context, “kosmos” is used four times, once in verse 16, and three times in verse 17. If we were to limit its use in verse 16, to refer only to the “elect”, then we must carry on this use in the following verse also. Where we read:

    “For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved”

    Let is substitute the word “world” in each of these cases with “elect”, and see how it reads.

    “For God did not send His Son into the elect to condemn the elect, but that the elect through Him might be saved”

    If, as it is argued by some, that Christ only came to save the “elect”, then why would any mention ever be made about Him coming to “condemn”, or “judge” the “elect”? These words have no meaning at all, if they are meant to be for the “elect” only. There would not be any reference made to any judgement or condemnation of the “elect”, as this is something that is not at all even a possibility. John 5: 24 says:

    "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life”

    The believer is said not to come into any “judgment”, or “condemnation”, as they have “passed from death into life”, which has already said to have taken place, when the sinner trusted in Jesus for their salvation.

    Further, in verse 17 we read, that “the elect might be saved through Him” Here we have the Greek “sothe” (might be saved), which is in the subjunctive mood, which is used to denote “possibility”, in that it is not something “certain”. It is true, that as in verses 15 and 16, where the word apoletai (KJV “should not perish) is used, it is with the “hina” clause, which, though in the subjunctive mood, is yet in both cases “certain”, because in each case the negative “me” (me_apoletai) is used. This will then render the clause as “shall not perish”. However, in verse 17, even though “sothe” is used with “hina” (hina sothe), there is no negative particle used as in verse 15 and 16, which would require the clause to have the meaning of “possibility”, which is correctly rendered in English as “might be saved” Does this then mean, that the salvation of the “elect” is only a “possibility”? If we are to take the words to mean “shall be saved”, then we would expect Jesus to have said: “sothese”, as in Romans 10:9, “ That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”

    Dr Robert Dabney, who was a Calvinist, has this to say on the use of “kosmos” here:

    “In Jno.iii.16, make ‘the world’ which Christ loved, to mean ‘the elect world’, and we reach the absurdity, that some of the elect may not believe, and perish…since Christ made expiation for every man” (Systematic Theology, p.525)

    We should note, that in verses 15 and 16, “believes”, is in the Greek, “pisteuno”, which is the present, continuance, tense, literally, “continues to believe”.

    We can only conclude from these facts, that there is no Biblical justification for us to take “kosmos” the this passage, to mean anything other than “the sum total of the human race”, and NOT as the Calvinist would have us believe, because of their theological bias found in the heresy of “Limited Atonement”, that it only refers to the “elect”. Can any honest mind doubt that this great passage is the hope of mankind, for salvation through our Great Redeemer, the Lord Jesus Christ?

    John Calvin, had this to say on this verse:

    That whosoever believeth on him may not perish. It is a remarkable commendation of faith, that it frees us from everlasting destruction. For he intended expressly to state that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life.”

    Calvin’s own language is what is not used by any “Calvinist” who believes in “Limited Atonement”. “all men without distinction” is the language that a “Calvinist” would use, so as to distort what the Bible actually teaches, yet the “Calvinists” own “leader”, John Calvin, himself believed that Jesus Christ dies for THE WHOLE WORLD, that is, EVERY HUMAN BEING!

    For those Calvinists who still insist that John Calvin taught any “limitation” to the Death of Jesus Christ, that it was not for the sins of the entire human race. Calvin himself clarifies his position.

    On Mark 14:24, where Jesus says:

    “And He said to them, “This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many”

    Calvin says:

    Which is shed for many. By the word many he means not a part of the world only, but the whole human race; for he contrasts many with one; as if he had said, that he will not be the Redeemer of one man only, but will die in order to deliver many from the condemnation of the curse”

    And, on Colossians 1:14, “In whom we have redemption”, Calvin says:

    “He says that this redemption was procured through the blood of Christ, for by the sacrifice of his death all the sins of the world have been expiated”
     
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  2. Sai

    Sai Well-Known Member

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    Satan’s ordered universe - the opposite of chaos, cosmos
     
  3. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    Here is what the Bible says of itself.

    2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

    All scripture is profitable because it is scripture that is inspired of God. It does have different applications to different people and we can be instructed by knowing that. No one, for instance, is going to turn to Matt 21:21-22 and complain they cannot remove a high hill that is blocking their view because that passage says they can. There is context to the scriptures.These words obviously were spoken to men who were given apostolic powers for a certain time and for a certain purpose. We can learn something about God by exploring what his purpose is in giving such power to men. When we learn it we can instruct others and maybe even correct a few, or be corrected if that is the need. It would be unreasonable to think this is a promise to all Christians across the board because it is written in the Bible.

    We must approach John 3 as being true for us today while at the same time recognizing it's primary application. In context he was speaking to a Jewish ruler who represented the people of Israel. This ruler was perplexed by his claims for himself and the evidence for his claims of miracles and signs. He concluded that no one could do the things Jesus had done except God be with him. It was in this context that this conversation between these two took place.

    These people were the only ones who had enjoyed a personal relationship with the God of heaven for the previous 1500 years. They had heard his prophets and read his books and they had served him in the tabernacle and in the temple. However, John is presenting the coming of Jesus in a much broader sense than the other 3 gospel writers.John is giving the divine view of his coming. It was not just to Israel, although Israel will be first to receive his gift of life, but he was coming so the whole world could be saved through him. In John 1 he was the very expression of God, he was the Word of God. He made the world and everything in it.He is the light of the world. Light is God's metaphor for understanding. One can understand God by studying him. In him was life. Of course the life that was in him was the Holy Spirit of God that God had given to him without measure and he was prepared to pour out of himself on the cross so all men might live as he lives, eternally.

    John was writing this in retrospect, much later than when these events took place. He said he came to his own and his own received him not but as many as received him to them he gave the power to becomes the sons of God. This requires a birth in addition to the physical birth and John says this birth is of God and is on the principle of faith. It is God's prerogative to make his birth in this manner and that is the meaning of John 1:14. Now Jesus is explaining John 1:14 and telling not only how a man is born again, but who can be born again. He said the whole world can be born again because it is not just for someone who has a certain birth right but it is for those people who will believe in him. This is who God loved and it is for those he died.That is what Jesus said. He knows God the Father. He knows who he loves. He knows who he died for. He knows on what basis he will give them his life. He says it is the world. It is the kosmos. This is who he loved. This is what he tells Nicodemus. We can be instructed by this. Thank you Nicodemus for 1500 years of preparation and instruction of God but we did not know how broad was the mercy and love of God until we have seen Jesus and to know and understand that he was willing to go to the cross for the whole world. That means he went to the cross for me and for you, whoever you are. That is what he said.

    People who will not believe this will not have life. They might have religion but they will not have life. Jesus did not make his salvation about election. He had elected the physical seed of Abraham to be his people but they did not have eternal life because of it. They were not children of God because they were elected. They were children of God by the new birth, when and if they believed in Jesus, the Son of God who died their death for them and gave them his life that he shed there on that cross. His life is the Spirit of God. He indwells sinners who believe. This is the new birth. Jesus made his salvation about faith. He made it about believing. He made it about trusting him. All men who hear can believe but not all men will believe. Those who believe will be given the gift of Life that he willingly gave to the world. History tells us he did it. Eye witnesses tells us he did it. God says he did it. Some men deny it but it is men who do not have faith in what these say. They do not have life because life is of faith in Jesus Christ. It is faith in the testimony that is written. The testimony is plain. It is clear. it is straight forward. It is to the world. Whosoever will let him come and take of the water of life freely. This is a marvelous truth. It is to everyone in the world. No one should die the second death. Christ will give you life. Believe.
     
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  4. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    At any rate it is pure ignorance to manipulate God's word to make it say what it clearly does not. Calvinist always want to bring up the Greek as if it gives them greater understanding when there are no Greek dictionaries that are two thousand years old. So where did they get there definitions?. Biblical Greek isn't the same as modern Greek it's nearly a different language. Yet they study Greek and don't know nearly as much as they pretend. The Bible has been translated in to English I understand English and the KJV has led more people to Christ than any other version. I praise God for our Bibles. If we had to rely on Calvinist for Christianity we would be very disappointed.
    MB
     
  5. ThyWordIsTruth

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    it is called "theology"!
     
  6. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    True it is but theology can be about any theory. Satan has his own theology. Not to mention a theory is an unproven speculation
    MB
     
  7. ThyWordIsTruth

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    T.U.L.I.P. is generally known as the Five Points of Calvinism. Yet, as we can see from Calvin's own writings, he believed in a "universal atonement", which makes their assumption to be a false one! The "L" is bound together with T.U.I, "P" can stand on its own. Yet Calvin, among other Reformed theologians who accepted a "universal atonement", still believed and taught "Unconditional Election", "Irresistible Grace", which flatly contradicts "universal atonement", as these cannot be opposed. "universal atonement", does not allow for, "Unconditional Election" or "Irresistible Grace". This fallicy is because T.U.L.I.P. as put together by these Reformers, is contrary to the Word of God.
     
    #7 ThyWordIsTruth, Aug 27, 2020
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  8. ThyWordIsTruth

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    I must bring this up again. Are you here saying that to be "born-again" only requires that the sinner has "faith", but no "repentance of sins"? What of Jesus' own words at the start and end of His earthly Ministry?

    "Now after John was arrested, Jesus came into Galilee, proclaiming the gospel of God,and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.” (1:14,15)

    "and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem" (Luke 24:47, the best textual evidence is for "repentance for", not "and")

    Surley both FAITH and REPENTANCE from personal sins are a pre-requirement?
     
  9. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    I agree it is and I have pointed this out many times to no avail.
    MB
     
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  10. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    No one but a sinner can be saved. Believing Jesus Christ died for sin has to mean he died for my sins. Intelligence, reason, and will is present when a sinner gets saved. I have never heard anyone give a personal testimony that salvation was given to them so they could sin more. Repentance is assumed in salvation but it is not mentioned in all places we are encouraged to be saved. How can anyone look at the cross and think sin is a good thing?

    I was dealing with the new birth in chapter 3 in the context of the world but Jesus is hanging on that tree in that chapter. The reason men will not be saved, Jesus said, is because they loved their sin and therefore will not believe. This in itself implies repentance unto life.

    I am a repentance preacher.
     
    #10 JD731, Aug 27, 2020
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  11. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    For a long time, I have attempted to get folks to look at the atonement not as a singular, but as puzzle pieces that fit together. Each piece is uniquely shaped to fit that singular purpose necessary to bring about the whole.

    For example, the blood. The Cross was specifically designed to not shed blood. It was designed to torture. Yet from the garden to the tomb, blood was shed. Most in the judgement halls where sin accusations were made and payments rendered.

    The Scriptures declare without the shedding of blood there is no remission and that the blood was shed for all sin. Every sin in the universe has blood shed for the remission.

    People are lost in eternity, not from a lack of blood, but from an abiding rebellion against God.

    The “L” then stands. But it is not about blood deficiency, it is about God empowerment.

    Only those who God gives hearing ears to hear the Word will receive the faith granted by the hearing of the Word. Those that turn from rebellion, embrace the Word, as that conviction cry of the needy “what must I do to be saved” is quenched by the assured trust implanted. By the merciful grace of God.

    Therefore, like a puzzle the pieces of the atonement are completed for the believer. He that began a good work does complete that work - the author and finisher.
     
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  12. ThyWordIsTruth

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    very well written! :Thumbsup
     
  13. Sai

    Sai Well-Known Member

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    Neither the translations nor the manuscripts were inspired. Only the original autographs were inspired. However, nothing has been lost, we still have in our possession, the word of God.
     
  14. Sai

    Sai Well-Known Member

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    Wrong.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  15. Sai

    Sai Well-Known Member

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    Repentance is a false addition to salvation
     
  16. ThyWordIsTruth

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    So Jesus Christ is wrong? :Rolleyes
     
  17. ThyWordIsTruth

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    says your theology!
     
  18. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Some versions are corrupted this is true. However a good version saves souls. If they save souls they are the true inspired Word. The originals were lost long ago but the message has been preserved by God. It's the message that is inspired by God
    MB
     
  19. ThyWordIsTruth

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    I have known people to have been saved by reading the Jehovah's Witness' New World Translation. Apart from their bias raeding at places, it is the Word of God that saves lost souls!
     
  20. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Perhaps the difficulty is not in hearing a meaning or reading the context, it is in accepting as factual what is heard and read.

    A great difficulty begins in the human condition about the age of nine. There is a continual growing resistance to reordering thinking. The chemical makeup of the brain gradually becomes “fixed” so learning becomes harder, memory pages stiffer to turn, and perceptions ridged.

    Few have been those who by continued work actually continue to grow in wisdom and knowledge of God. Most become quickly satiated in meager minimalist pew sitting.
     
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