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John 6:44, 65; 1 Corinthians 2:14

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by KenH, Oct 15, 2002.

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  1. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    (John 6:44 NKJV) "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

    (John 6:65 NKJV) And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."

    (1 Cor 2:14 NKJV) But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

    In these two verses in John, we see where the Lord Jesus clearly taught the inability of man to come to Him without the Father giving man the ability to come. The passage in 1 Corinthians also states that the natural man simply cannot understand spiritual truth.

    Also, notice that those that are given the ability to come by the Father are also raised up to eternal life by the Son, Christ Jesus. Those that are raised to eternal life are not a subset of those that are drawn by the Father or who are given the ability to come. All of those that are drawn and given spiritual ability, or spiritual life, are also the exact same ones that are raised up to eternal life by Christ Jesus. As Jesus said:

    (John 6:39 NKJV) "This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.

    Thus, we see the false teaching by Arminians and their fellow travelers that God draws every single person who will ever live is another false teaching that they have unfortunately latched onto.

    We also see that another false teaching of many Arminians and their fellow travelers - that of one being saved, becoming unsaved, becoming saved again, becoming unsaved again, etc., is also repudiated by the Lord Jesus. He said that His Father's will for Him is to lose nothing that the Father has given Him. To say that a child of God can be lost is to say that Jesus Christ will not carry out the will of His Father - and that is a horrible, terrible thing for a person who claims to be Christian to say about Christ Jesus. Clearly, Jesus will fulfill His Father's will for Him and bring to glory all of those whom the Father draws and gives to Him, the very ones that Christ shed His precious blood to save.

    Again, as we see over and over again, non-Calvinist teaching in the area of soteriology cannot stand up to the light of Scripture.

    Ken
    A Spurgeonite
     
    #1 KenH, Oct 15, 2002
  2. ScottEmerson

    ScottEmerson Active Member

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    Not a problem since all men are drawn. Without the Spirit, no man can understand spiritual truth.

    Looking at the large context, we have to define the pronoun "it." Arminians would state using the passage as a whole that Christ is saying that no man can come without first being drawn by the father. Jesus will raise those who eat of the Bread of Life at the last day.

    While I do not believe in losing salvation, I would say that Arminians do not believe Jesus is losing them. Some Arminians would state that they fall away on their own free choice; it is not the fault of Jesus Christ.

    Again, I don't believe in losing salvation.

    Again, as we see over and over again, Calvinits prooftexts cannot stand up to the light of Scripture as a whole.
     
    #2 ScottEmerson, Oct 15, 2002
  3. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp New Member

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    Ken,

    I don't necessarily disagree with anything you say here, and I will even give you another supporting scripture:

    "I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Even so Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. All things are delievered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him."

    One cannot read these words and still believe that man has any natural ability to have faith in God. Indeed, God is actively hiding Christ (contrary to the "passing over" theory of the one hump Calvinists) from those who are wise in their own conceits.

    Faith is, indeed, a gift of God. It is not, however, a gift that God forces a man to accept. In this text we see that God's enlightenment and drawing is not given without qualification on the part of the sinner. Jesus tells us the class of people to whom God reveals the Son:

    "and hast revealed them unto babes."

    That explicitly says they must first become babes before God will reveal the Son to them. As Jesus also said in another place,

    "Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven."

    No amount of Genevan wresting can get the revelation of Christ prior to the self humbling. So much for unconditional election. And I add, that while it is sure that a man cannot come to God without the drawing of God, it is equally as sure that God is willing to draw any man who will humble himself as a little child. As Jesus said,

    "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth will draw all men unto unto me."

    Mark Osgatharp
     
    #3 Mark Osgatharp, Oct 15, 2002
  4. EPH 1:4

    EPH 1:4 New Member

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    I agree with you Ken, the natural man cannot receive the things of the Spirit of God:1 Cor.2:14, Why? Because he (the natural man) is dead in trepasses and sins,Eph.2:1,Romans 5:12, and does not understand or seeks God, Romans 3:11. So if the natural man could "accept or reject Christ," What would he (the natural man do)?......ALWAYS reject!...I thank God for election, Steve
     
    #4 EPH 1:4, Oct 15, 2002
  5. ForumChaplain

    ForumChaplain Guest

    Is he physically dead, or spiritually dead? Figure that out and then apply your conclusions with all its rammifications to your statement.
     
    #5 ForumChaplain, Oct 15, 2002
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