JOHN HAGEE - JIMMY and DONNY SWAGGART

[Nagor]

Mr. Hagee was on the Daystar Christian TV
the other day promoting his new book.

Mr. Hagee stated that demons were not angels or fallen angels
as he referred to them. He went on to state that it is not recorded
in the bible what they were or where they came from.

So my first question is how does he know they are not angels that
rebelled from God? Since he does not know?

He then stated that angels or fallen angels as he referred to them could not
possess or inhabit a human body. He said they had bodies of their own.

Both Jimmy and Donny Swaggart on the Francis and Friends program on their
broadcasting Christian TV channel, stated the same thing.

That demons were not angels and that angels could not
possess or inhabit a human body.

Not only do they not know one way or the other if demons are fallen angels.

They do not know what is recorded or believe what is recorded in the bible.

In several places in the bible angels inhabited the bodies of humans.

Even the devil,
Satan inhabited the body of Judas as recorded in the Book of Luke.

Luke 22:3
Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot,
being of the number of the twelve.

Why do these men tell these lies?

 

[Calypsis4]

Mr. Hagee was on the Daystar Christian TV
the other day promoting his new book.

Mr. Hagee stated that demons were not angels or fallen angels
as he referred to them. He went on to state that it is not recorded
in the bible what they were or where they came from.

So my first question is how does he know they are not angels that
rebelled from God? Since he does not know?

He then stated that angels or fallen angels as he referred to them could not
possess or inhabit a human body. He said they had bodies of their own.

Both Jimmy and Donny Swaggart on the Francis and Friends program on their
broadcasting Christian TV channel, stated the same thing.

That demons were not angels and that angels could not
possess or inhabit a human body.

Not only do they not know one way or the other if demons are fallen angels.

They do not know what is recorded or believe what is recorded in the bible.

In several places in the bible angels inhabited the bodies of humans.

Even the devil,
Satan inhabited the body of Judas as recorded in the Book of Luke.

Luke 22:3
Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot,
being of the number of the twelve.

Why do these men tell these lies?

I think you've made a point, Nagar. We cannot follow man...unless the one under consideration is teaching the truth. The scriptures must be the bottom line of all our beliefs for it is God's Word.

 

[righteousdude2]

I think you've made a point, Nagar. We cannot follow man...unless the one under consideration is teaching the truth. The scriptures must be the bottom line of all our beliefs for it is God's Word.

I think all men are fallible, as seen here. For this reason I like to take the good seed from their teaching and separate it from the bad. By doing this, we learn more about God. Toleration in teaching is okay when a person is able to discern the good from the bad. The problem is, many, too many, folks seem to be influenced by the bad as well as the good, and for me, they stagnate and even die on the vine of that one teacher/denomination.

Even in the ranks of the Baptist church, there are major factions of doctrinal differences. And to the world, at times they see us and say, "look the Baptists are divided in what they teach and believe!"

Shalom! :flower:

 

[HankD]

While the scripture does not say in those exact words - demons are fallen angels - it is inferred by comparing scripture with scripture:

The word for "devil(s)" in these passages is "daimon" and is used interchangeably with "unclean spirit".

So only one presumption should be made , that "unclean spirit", demon (Grk. Daimon) and fallen angel are synonymous.

which is supported by:

In Hebrews angels are inferred to be "spirits"

Hebrews 1
13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

in Matthew 25 the "spirits" which fell and sided with satan are called angels.

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

In Luke 8 the "daimon" are called unclean spirits

Luke 8
28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not.
29 (For he had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For oftentimes it had caught him: and he was kept bound with chains and in fetters; and he brake the bands, and was driven of the devil into the wilderness.)
30 And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him.
31 And they besought him that he would not command them to go out into the deep.
32 And there was there an herd of many swine feeding on the mountain: and they besought him that he would suffer them to enter into them. And he suffered them.
33 Then went the devils out of the man, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the lake, and were choked.
34 When they that fed them saw what was done, they fled, and went and told it in the city and in the country.

Matthew 12
43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

HankD

 

[John of Japan]

Why do these men tell these lies?

Because they are false teachers.

Hagee is a typical Charismatic, believing in ecstatic tongues, etc.

Swaggart is a typical Charismatic, but also disqualified himself from the ministry by frequenting prostitutes, etc.

 

[Van]

Thanks HankD, your post was enlightening.

So we are left with these questions:

1) If Satan has fallen angels with him, does he also have separate entities called demons?
2) What is the basis or rational to conclude demons are not fallen angels?
3) Since in the story of Lot, angels did appear as humans, what is the basis for saying fallen angels cannot also appear as humans?
4) Since "demons" can possess living humans, why can't fallen angels also possess individuals.​

I do not mind if folks challenge my presumptions, but without some sort of support in scripture, I will stick with the traditional view, demons are the fallen angels, and they possessed humans during the life of Christ. They (demons) remain active today, providing evil influences that are adverse to godly living.

 

[HankD]

Thanks HankD, your post was enlightening.

So we are left with these questions:

1) If Satan has fallen angels with him, does he also have separate entities called demons?
2) What is the basis or rational to conclude demons are not fallen angels?
3) Since in the story of Lot, angels did appear as humans, what is the basis for saying fallen angels cannot also appear as humans?
4) Since "demons" can possess living humans, why can't fallen angels also possess individuals.​

I do not mind if folks challenge my presumptions, but without some sort of support in scripture, I will stick with the traditional view, demons are the fallen angels, and they possessed humans during the life of Christ. They (demons) remain active today, providing evil influences that are adverse to godly living.

I'm with you.

HankD