John Owen On 2 Peter 3:9

[Rippon]

You [sic]unbelief here is astounding.

What did you say about "personal attacks" earlier?

God desires all to be saved.

He is not willing means just that --He will not allow that to come to pass. Only the elect will be saved. He is not willing that they will perish. Do you disagree?

 

[JesusFan]

What did you say about "personal attacks" earlier?



He is not willing means just that --He will not allow that to come to pass. Only the elect will be saved. He is not willing that they will perish. Do you disagree?

I do agree with you on this, but DHK will not be able to, as per his understanding of the Bible model for salvation, God had Jesus die and atone for Sins of ALL, that He enables by grace ALL to to be able to accept/reject Jesus, as God allows them to be ultimate basis of them getting saved /staying lost!

 

[DHK]

I do agree with you on this, but DHK will not be able to, as per his understanding of the Bible model for salvation, God had Jesus die and atone for Sins of ALL, that He enables by grace ALL to to be able to accept/reject Jesus, as God allows them to be ultimate basis of them getting saved /staying lost!

Jesus is God, the second person of the triune Godhead. Let's not forget that. Thus God did not force Jesus to die. In that one statement you robbed Christ of his deity.
Secondly, it was God himself that so loved the world that he came, and was born of a virgin, was made flesh as a man, became the God-man that he might atone for the sins of mankind. His grace is sufficient for all. You have a weak God, robbed of his omnipotence, when you say he can only save the elect. How powerless is he that he cannot save all! How pitiful is your perception of an Almighty Creator. He has all power to save all. But his justice demands that he cannot. He cannot because man, in his depravity has chosen to rebel against a holy God. God gave him the choice to accept Christ or refuse him. In his sovereignty He gave man free will. The two work together.
In his sovereignty God gave Satan permission to test Job. Satan could test Job by whatever means he wanted up to an extent. God gave him the freedom to do so. You are blind to this.

God sets life and death before man. Is it God's fault that they choose death? NO. God is not willing that any man should choose death, but they do anyway. That is the meaning. No man is forced to choose; no man is forced to reject Christ. They do it of their own free will.

 

[Skandelon]

It works something like this...

Eternity past, God foreordained/pedetermined those on whom he would show His grace and mercy upon, those chose them out of reprobate humanity, in order to enable them to receive by faith jesus Christ...

the Lord knows ALL whom He has elected to Eternal Life, and the time WHEN they shall receive Him as redeemer, so all things work according to His Soverign timing and Plans in History..

And God could NOT "have shoertened" the time period, as he still has the End days coming, Great Tribulation, second Coming etc and ALL those things will occur at the right times that he purposed them to be!

So, in your view, He is waiting on Himself, or at least "His plan." Ok, just checking. Peter said he is waiting on them, but you say God is waiting on His plans to unfold.

I'll stick with Peter.

 

[DHK]

Question though....

Does "ALL" always mean all in the senses of "each and every person?"
Can it be that "All" is the desired will/permitted of God, yet the absolute is that 'some" will come?

Again, are we sure that we reading into this our "Arminian" theology, and not seeingit in light of ALL of the scriptures concerning salvation?

All means all when there is no reason for it not to mean all.
You are reading your Calvinistic theology into this verse.
You are not seeing this verse in the light of the totality of Scripture.
The whosoevers of Scripture apparently mean nothing to you.

 

[Skandelon]

What is interesting is to study what Calvin himself taught about the passages that express God's desire for all to be saved. It just seems so very different than what we see from some Calvinists:

"...he demonstrates that God has at heart the salvation of all, because he invites all to the acknowledgment of his truth. This belongs to that kind of argument in which the cause is proved from the effect; for, if
“the gospel is the power of God for salvation to every one that believeth,” (Romans 1:16,) it is certain that all those to whom the gospel is addressed are invited to the hope of eternal life...God wishes that the gospel should be proclaimed to all without exception. Now the preaching of the gospel gives life; and hence he justly concludes that God invites all equally to partake salvation."

"So wonderful is his love towards mankind, that he would have them all to be saved, and is of his own self prepared to bestow salvation on the lost. But the order is to be noticed, that God is ready to receive all to repentance, so that none may perish; for in these words the way and manner of obtaining salvation is pointed out. Every one of us, therefore, who is desirous of salvation, must learn to enter in by this way.
But it may be asked, If God wishes none to perish, why is it that so many do perish? To this my answer is, that no mention is here made of the hidden purpose of God, according to which the reprobate are doomed to their own ruin, but only of his will as made known to us in the gospel. For God there stretches forth his hand without a difference to all, but lays hold only of those, to lead them to himself, whom he has chosen before the foundation of the world." -John Calvin

 

[DHK]

What is interesting is to study what Calvin himself taught about the passages that express God's desire for all to be saved. It just seems so very different than what we see from some Calvinists:

"...he demonstrates that God has at heart the salvation of all, --John Calvin

Now that's funny. I agree more with Calvin than our resident "so-called Calvinists" such as Rippon. Thanks for the laugh. But in truth, it really isn't funny; it is sad.