John Piper

Since he isn't a true Baptist anymore I don't care. If your infant baptism by pouring is "meaningful" to you he won't require you to be baptized by immersion. He needs to change the name of his church or move to a wishy washy vanilla non/intra denominational church of the lady of his mind.

 

I suggest you not hold back and tell us how you really feel... Get it off your chest man, it's good for you!

 

WHEW!

What? you don't think that 'reformed pedobaptists' are 'Baptists'?

Well there might still be two of us. . .

 

:type: It may just be that since he has apparently embraced Calvinism that he feels the evangelistic outreach of preaching or teaching on the radio is a waste of time and the Lord's money since the "elect" will get "in" regardless of what he says or does......How sad......I truly believe that the so-called theological system invented by John Calvin is an unbiblical heresy that the devil has used in the days leading up to the return of Christ to deceive many and keep otherwise dedicated Christians from spreading the saving Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. How Satan must laugh with glee for every soul that will never hear the truth because of it. He hates our Lord and he hates every man,woman,and child who God graciously endowed with a free will and choice to believe...or not.....(that would be ALL of us).Calvinism is a GOSPEL KILLER. Be wise and reject this terrible heresy. Like every false doctrine there is just enough truth in it to hook the carnal folk and undiscerning Christians given to doubtful disputations. And THAT is my humble opinion on the subject.:flower: :saint:

Greg Sr.

 

Piper's website.

 

What? It has nothing to do with Calvinism? I'm shocked! I thought for sure Greg had it right.:laugh:

Joseph Botwinick

 

Yes, a statement like this is sad, very sad. He has been a Calvinist (Bible beleiver) for a very long time. He was when he started his radio program.

You would do well to change your belief. You are believing in a fairy tale.

It is also an incorrect opinion. The facts are available on teh topic. All you need do is beleive them.

Feel free to disagree with Calvinism, but don't make stuff up about it.

 

Larry...I stand by my statement that Calvinism is an unbiblical heresy.The calvinists of C.H.Spurgeons day (and yes...Spurgeon was calvinist in his belief) chided him for his large evangelistic services ..but he was honest enough to where he believed it right that the gospel should be presented to as many as could hear it. From my studies and reading I also understand that William Carey(the father of modern missions) was shouted down by the calvinists of his day for suggesting that it would be right to evangelize the heathen of foriegn lands. Being one of those innumerable "whosoever wills" myself I'm simply thankful that a gracious and merciful God showed me his grace and saved me....but since He created me in His Image and gave me the ability that no other created "critter" has...(the ability to reason and choose)....I'm just thankful that I responded rightly to His call and the urging and wooing of His Holy Spirit....and I'm also thankful that somebody was faithful to PRESENT the truth of His Word to me. Have a nice day. I'll stand by my Biblical beliefs.Thank God I have a real Pastor who preaches the truth and seeks to win souls diligently.

Greg Sr.

 

In your studies of Carey, did you miss the part that revealed that he, himself, was a Calvinist?

Joseph Botwinick

 

Joseph,

Few men that are claimed to be 'calvinists' are indeed 'calvinists' - most of them are 'calvinistic'. I can agree that 'calvinistic' is based upon biblical doctrines. But, to go the further step and lay the blame for the holocaust and all the other ills of this world at the feet of God is a little bit extreme. Even Calvin struggled with that part of his doctrine enough that it seems that he felt the only item predestined was the salvific act and the events orchestrated by the Holy Spirit leading up to it.

So, by modern standards, Calvin might not be a 'Calvinist'.

And people wonder why there are people trying to call people Christian that do not follow Jesus . . . :BangHead:

 

Even Calvin struggled with that part of his doctrine enough that it seems that he felt the only item predestined was the salvific act and the events orchestrated by the Holy Spirit leading up to it.

Um . . . no.

 

<just to fuel the flames> Maybe he's moving towards a more Arminian position and fears that people will just choose to turn off the radio and not here the gospel

Not mentioned in the above post quoting from his webpage is that if you don't have internet, or have the opportunity to listen to the podcasts, you can sign up and receive 2 weeks worth of CDs sent to you, 10 sermons total, every 2 weeks. That way you could still listen to them in the car, on the stereo etc.

 

Um ... show me . . .

 

I could show you.

Ah . . . the joys of reading alot. Too much even.

Calvin is one of the 4 most misunderstood and misquoted authors in history . . .

God and His Word being number one.

Paul being close - but, it really wasn't his word (IMHO).

Augustine being up there as well.

 

While we are listing Calvinist of the past, lets just add a few to that list so that we have more then just 2.

Poets and hymn writers
John Milton
"Paradise Lost" and "Paradise Restored"
(1608-1674)

William Cowper "There is a Fountain"
(1731-1800)

John Newton "Amazing Grace"
(1722-1807)

Augustus Toplady "Rock of Ages"
(1740-1778)

Philip Doddridge "O Happy Day"
(1702-1751)

Horatious Bonar (1808-1889)

Isaac Watts
(1674-1748)

Reformers

Martin Luther
(1483-1546)

John Calvin
(1509-1564)

John Knox
(1505-1572)

John Wycliffe "the father of the Reformation"
(1320-1384)

Jerome Zanchius
(1516-1590)

Theodore Beza (1519-1605)

John Bradford (1510-1555)

Thomas Cranmer
(1489-1556)

William Tyndale (1492-1536)

Ulrich Zwingli
Hugh Latimer
(1485-1555)

Nicholas Ridley (1500-1555)

Martin Bucer (1491-1551)

Martyrs

John Huss
burned to death
(1369-1415)

Jerome of Prague
also burned
(1360-1416)

William Sautre
John Claydon
Thomas Bilvey
William Tyndale
James Bainham
John Lambert
Robert Barnes
(burned as well)

John Foxe didn't die a martyrs death, but he was a martyr historian who happened to be a Calvinist.
(1517-1587)

Revivalists

(Spurgeon said he had never heard of a revival apart from Calvinistic doctrine)

George Whitfield
(1714-1770)

John Bunyan
(1628-1688)

Rowland Hill
(1745-1833)

Charles Haddon Spurgeon
(1834-1892)

Robert Murray M'Cheyne
(1813-1842)

Cotton Mather

Missionaries

Jonathan Edwards
(1703-1758)

David Brainerd
(1718-1747)

William Carey
(1761-1834)

Robert Moffat

David Livingstone

John G. Paton

John R. Mott

Scholars and Theologians

Stephen Charnock
(1628-1680)

John Owen
(1616-1683)

Thomas Chalmers
(1780-1847)

John Howe
(1630-1705)

John Ryland

Abraham Booth
(1734-1806)

Andrew Fuller
(1754-1815)

Alexander Carson
(1776-1874)

Augustus H. Strong
(1836-1921)

Charles Hodge
(1797-1878)

A.A. Hodge
(1823-1886)

B.B. Warfield
(1851-1921)

William G. T. Shedd

John A. Broadus
(1827-1895)

James Petigru Boyce
(1827-1888)

J.R. Graves
(1820-1893)

B.H. Carroll
(1843-1914)

J.M. Pendleton
(1811-1891)

Alvah Hovey
(1820-1903)

Commentators and Expositors

Matthew Henry
(1662-1714)

John Gill
(1697-1771)

Thomas Goodwin
(1600-1679)

Thomas Manton
(1620-1677)

John Brown
(1784-1858)

Robert Haldane
(1764-1842)

John Trapp
(1611-1669)

John Collinges
(1623-1630)

Richard Sibbes
(1577-1635)

Jeremy Taylor
(1613-1667)

Robert Leighton
(1611-1684)

Christopher Ness
(1621-1705)

Charles Simeon
(1759-1836)

Charles Hodge
(1797-1878)

James Buchanan
(1804-1870)

J.C. Ryle
(1816-1900)

Arthur Pink
(1886-1952)

Preachers

John Flavel
(1630-1691)

Benjamin Keach
(1640-1704)

John Rippon
(1751-1836)

Christmas Evans
(1766-1838)

John Clifford

Archibald Brown

J.B. Moody

H.B. Taylor
(1870-1932)

I.M. Haldeman

Jeremiah Burroughs

George S. Bishop

T. T. Eaton

Martin Llyod-Jones
(1899-1981)

 

You are kidding right? This sounds like it came from a non-Calvinist book. My guess is that the person you got this from has never read Calvin. Stop banging your head, and read a book.

 

I don't know everyone on that list but most of the ones I recognized did seem to be Calvinist.

However, might it be a little disingenuous to include martyrs that died a hundred years before Calvin was born and call them Calvinists? You might as well include Augustine, Paul and the disciples if you are going to include these guys. I'm also not so sure Luther should be on there.

We have a tendency to want all the good ones on our "side" by making them say things they didn't say.

 

I have no doubt about this, but you will still be wrong. Standing by an erroneous understanding does not make it right.

Most Calvinists today would agree with Spurgeon and Carey.

Yes, Calvinism is great. It does all these things that you have just listed.

Well, make up your mind. Either stand by yoru biblical beliefs, or stand by your belief that Calvinism is an unbibilical heresy. You can't do both.

That's wonderful. I am glad I am not the only one. There are many of us Calvinists who preach the gospel fervently and call on mankind to respond. As I have said before, if I weren't a Calvinist I don't think I would ever preach again. I would hate to think that it depended on my persuasive ability rather than on the sovereign work of God. But that's just me.

 

I will agree that Calvin is the most misquoted person I have read. But, i have seen it is non-Calvinist for the most part that do this. However, I have to admit Calvinist have done it as well.

The the most mis-understood...This may be right, but this would be very hard to prove. I guess I would agree with this, but I still see no way to prove it, being that each reader can take it a new way.

But I am game..I would like to see you prove that Calvin is the most misunderstood writer.

go for it...