Judgment Seat of Christ

Pastor_Bob · Dec 24, 2007

The following post is taken from another forum. The poster asserts that the popular view of the events regarding the Judgment Seat of Christ is an invention by C.I. Scofield and then propagated by his Bible notes.

I am interested in comments relative to this event that would pre-date Scofield.

1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Scofield came up with the idea (at least it first appeared in his notes) that Christians will stand before God in heaven at his throne and "give and account" of what we did or didnt do for Him. If you talk to any old timers, they never heard this preached until the late 50s early 60s. The old time preachers never preached it that way until then historically.

It is basically a biblically unfounded doctrine used as a whipping post by the IFBx to scare christians into servitude. Many older great christian pastors outside of the IFBX such as Al Lacy denounce this "new" doctrine as heresy. In verse 13 above the wording about mans works is: "for THE day shall declare it" In clear plain english it says, If I do something bad today the day shall declare it. If I do something good tomorrow, the day shall declare it. If you read the context of this chapter, it is talking about our time here on earth. NOWHERE does it ever jump to heaven for a bema seat judgement. Those who claim it does essentially are saying we will stand before God in our own righteousness. Nowhere does it say we will give an account before God for our evil. CHRIST paid it all and we stand before God in His righteousness, not our own. The day you accepted Christ as your saviour is the day you stood before God and took Christ's righteousness. The crowns we will cast at His feet, (study out the crowns) are all crowns He gives us because we are his children, none of them that we particularly work for. One favorite crown is the soulwinners crown. The apostle Paul said in Philippians 4 that those who were at the church of Philippi were partakers in his ministry and that the fruit of his ministry went to their account. God makes it possible for even the shut-in to receive the reward of soulwinners crown by just praying for the missionary. The only unique crown is the martyrs crown which only some christians will have.

The Bema seat doctrine is a false doctrine that has no biblical basis and is a slap in the face of Jesus Christ. We will be judged daily by God and the day will declare it. That is what scripture says. It is one of the false doctrines being taught today that keep christians from entering the joy of their salvation. I will stand in Christ's righteousness. You can choose to stand in filthy rags if you choose.
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canadyjd · Dec 24, 2007

Pastor Bob

I don't believe the passage is speaking of the bema seat judgement (though it is found elsewhere).

1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
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In context, the reference to "any man" is a reference to the teachers in the church at Corinth which members were following. The "building" are the followers of those teachers. The foundation is the teachings Paul had given them (Christ and Him crucified with ephasis on the persecution that accompanies following Christ). The "day" is the day of persecution. The "fire" is the persecution.

Paul is saying that the fire of persecution shall reveal the truth of the doctrine of these teachers. If their followers "abide" or remain faithful, then he has a reward in heaven. If his followers fall away, his doctrine has been proven of no account, he loses his reward, though his salvation remains intact should he, himself not fall away in the fire of persecution.

My two cents

peace to youraying:

Allan · Dec 25, 2007

canadyjd said:

Pastor Bob

I don't believe the passage is speaking of the bema seat judgement (though it is found elsewhere).

In context, the reference to "any man" is a reference to the teachers in the church at Corinth which members were following. The "building" are the followers of those teachers. The foundation is the teachings Paul had given them (Christ and Him crucified with ephasis on the persecution that accompanies following Christ). The "day" is the day of persecution. The "fire" is the persecution.

Paul is saying that the fire of persecution shall reveal the truth of the doctrine of these teachers. If their followers "abide" or remain faithful, then he has a reward in heaven. If his followers fall away, his doctrine has been proven of no account, he loses his reward, though his salvation remains intact should he, himself not fall away in the fire of persecution.

My two cents

peace to youraying:
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Here is John MacAuthor's take it:

This passage continues Paul’s discussion (1:10–3:23) of divisions within the Corinthian church. But its more immediate background is the Lord’s second coming. Paul shows how worldly and fleshly behavior, and the spiritual division it causes, affects the rewards the Lord will give when He returns. Moving ahead, he discusses the paradox of rewards, with their sureness (since all of us are equally undeserving) and their uniqueness (in that each of us is rewarded individually) Paul affirms both truths, while waiting for glory to bring final resolution to the paradox.

The Lord’s coming to reward His own was one of Paul’s greatest motivations. In a sense, everything the apostle did was motivated by that truth. His objective, within the supreme objective of glorifying his God and Savior, was to prepare himself to stand before the Lord and be able to hear Him say, “Well done, good and faithful slave” (Matt. 25:21, 23). He wrote the Philippians, “One thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus” (Phil. 3:13-14). It was not that he wanted glory or honor for himself, or wanted to prove himself better than other Christians, showing them up in Christian service. He wanted the Lord’s highest reward because that would be the most pleasing to the Lord Himself, and would most graphically demonstrate his grateful love.

In his second letter to Corinth, Paul mentions three specific motivations he had for doing his best for Christ. First, he wanted to please his Lord: “We have as our ambition,” he said, “whether at home or absent, to be pleasing to Him” (2 Cor. 5:9). Second, Christ’s great love controlled everything he did (v. 14); his whole ministry was directed by his love of God. And third, he knew that Christ’s work was complete, that “He died for all” (v. 15), and that therefore the ministry of the gospel would always be effective; it could not fail. Jesus Christ had already finished all the work that would ever have to be done for people to be saved.

Paul was not one to do things halfway. When he ran a race or fought a fight, he did so to win—to win the imperishable wreath of His Lord’s reward (1 Cor. 9:24-27). He was not competing with other believers, but against his own weakness, weariness, and sin. Though the particular words had not yet been written, Paul always had before him the knowledge that, “Behold, I [Jesus] am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done” (Rev. 22:12).

In speaking about believers’ rewards, Paul was not talking about our judging works or about God’s judging sin. Because all believers will “stand before the judgment seat of God,” each of us giving an “account of himself to God,” we have no right to judge the work of other believers (Rom. 14:10-12). We do not even know what rewards we will receive for ourselves, much less what another will receive. Both favorable and unfavorable judging are excluded. We do not even have the necessary insight to judge unbelievers in the church, who are tares among the wheat (cf. Matt. 13:24-30). Obviously, we are to rebuke sin and confront the sinning brother (Matt. 18:15-19; 1 Cor. 5:1-13), but that is because we can see such sin. Judging motives and the worthiness of reward is for God, who alone knows the heart.

It is as wrong to highly elevate a person as it is to degrade him. Paul already had warned twice in this letter against such worldly elevation of Christian leaders, including himself (1 Cor. 1:12-13; 3:4-9). We do not know enough about another’s heart and motives and faithfulness—in fact, not enough about our own—to know what rewards are or are not deserved. We should not “go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men’s hearts; and then each man’s praise will come to him from God” (1 Cor. 4:5).

The subject here is not God’s judgment on sin, either. The “judgment seat” before which all believers will one day stand (Rom. 14:10; 2 Cor. 5:10) is the Greek bēma, a tribunal. But both of those passages make it clear that the judgment at that place and that time will not be to dispense condemnation for sin but reward for good works, and that it involves only believers. Christ judged sin on the cross, and because we stand in Him we will never be condemned for our sins; He was condemned for us (1 Cor. 15:3; Gal. 1:4; 1 Pet. 2:24; etc.). He took the penalty of all our sins upon Himself (Col. 2:13; 1 John 2:12). God has no more charges against those who trust in His Son, those who are His elect, and will allow no one else to bring charges against them (Rom. 8:31-34). “There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Rom. 8:1). As we will see later, “each man’s praise will come to him from God” (1 Cor. 4:5).

In 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 Paul changes the analogy from agriculture to architecture. He had been speaking of his own planting, of Apollos’s watering, and of God’s giving the growth (vv. 6-8). At the end of verse 9 he makes a transition in his metaphors: “You are God’s field, God’s building.”

Using the figure of a building, Paul discusses five aspects of the work of the Lord’s people on earth: the master builder, the foundation, the materials, the test, and the workmen.
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Allan · Dec 25, 2007

Pastor_Bob said:

The following post is taken from another forum. The poster asserts that the popular view of the events regarding the Judgment Seat of Christ is an invention by C.I. Scofield and then propagated by his Bible notes.

I am interested in comments relative to this event that would pre-date Scofield.
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Albert Barnes (1798-1870) in his NT Notes states:

It may be observed, however, that many critics suppose this to refer to the fire of persecution, etc. Macknight. Whitby supposes that the apostle refers to the approaching destruction of Jerusalem. Others, as Grotius, Rosenmüller, etc. suppose that the reference is to “time” in general; it shall be declared ere long; it shall be seen whether those things which are built on the true foundation, are true by the test of time, etc. But the most natural interpretation is that which refers it to the Day of Judgment.
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Charles Hodge (1797-1878)

Every man’s work shall be made (or, become) manifest. In this life it may be disputed whether a man’s doctrines are true or false. He may have great confidence in their truth, and set himself above his brethren and even above the Bible. But his work hereafter will appear in its true character. For the day shall declare it. The day does not mean indefinitely time, ‘Time shall declare it;’ nor the day of tribulation; nor the day of light and knowledge as distinguished from the present ignorance; but the great day, the day of judgment, or, as it is so often called, the day of the Lord. That day shall make manifest the truth or falsehood of the doctrines taught, because it is (i.e. is certainly to be) revealed by fire; literally, in or with fire (ἐν πυρί). In 2 Thessalonians 1:8, it is said, “The Lord Jesus shall be revealed in flaming fire,” i.e. in the midst of flaming fire. Fire is the constant symbol of trial and judgment. The meaning therefore is, that the day of the Lord will be a day of severe trial. Every work will then be subjected to a test which nothing impure can stand. The context shows that the word day, and not work, is the nominative to revealed. ‘The day of judgment shall declare every man’s work, because that day shall be revealed with fire.’
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JAMIESON-FAUSSETT-BROWN (1871)

the day—of the Lord (1 Corinthians 1:8; Hebrews 10:25; 1 Thessalonians 5:4). The article is emphatic, “The day,” that is, the great day of days, the long expected day.

declare it—old English for “make it clear” (1 Corinthians 4:4).

it shall be revealed by fire—it, that is, “every man’s work.” Rather, “He,” the Lord, whose day it is (2 Thessalonians 1:7, 8). Translate literally, “is being revealed (the present in the Greek implies the certainty and nearness of the event, Revelation 22:10, 20) in fire” (Malachi 3:3; 4:1).
...
This fire is not till the last day, the supposed fire of purgatory begins at death
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Matthew Henry (1662-1714)

For the day shall declare it (that is, every man’s work), because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work, of what sort it is, v. 13. The day shall declare and make it manifest, the last day, the great day of trial; see ch. 4:5. Though some understand it of the time when the Jewish nation was destroyed and their constitution thereby abolished, when the superstructure which judaizing teachers would have raised on the Christian foundation was manifested to be no better than hay and stubble, that would not bear the trial. The expression carries in it a plain allusion to the refiner’s art, in which the fire separates and distinguishes the dross from the gold and silver; as it also will silver and gold and precious stones, that will endure the fire, from wood and hay and stubble, that will be consumed in it. Note, There is a day coming that will as nicely distinguish one man from another, and one man’s work from another’s, as the fire distinguishes gold from dross, or metal that will bear the fire from other materials that will be consumed in it. In that day, 1. Some men’s works will abide the trial—will be found standard. It will appear that they not only held the foundation, but that they built regularly and well upon it—that they laid on proper materials, and in due form and order. The foundation and the superstructure were all of a piece. The foundation-truths, and those that had a manifest connection with them, were taught together. It may not be so easy to discern this connection now, nor know what works will abide the trial then; but that day will make a full discovery.
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Not sure what you are looking for exactly but it has been apparently a commonly held belief that this is speaking of the Day of Judgment or Bema Seat for Christians and this is not a seat about condemnation but rewards that shall and should/could have been given.

The Scofield Reference Bible was not even in print until 1909.
Oxford University Press published The Scofield Reference Bible. It was released to the public in January, 1909, and revised by Scofield and his team of consultants as the New and Improved Edition in 1917.

skypair · Dec 25, 2007

Pastor_Bob said:

The following post is taken from another forum. The poster asserts that the popular view of the events regarding the Judgment Seat of Christ is an invention by C.I. Scofield and then propagated by his Bible notes.

I am interested in comments relative to this event that would pre-date Scofield.
Click to expand...

My view is that 1) we are sending forward daily the materials for building NJ. Notice the same materials as rewards here. And it ain't built out of "wood, hay, and stubble."

2) The 3 materials -- gold, silver, precious stones or wood, hay, stubble -- are explained in the next few verses as thoughts of God vs man, wisdom of God vs man, and glory of God vs man. Clearly we will be "stripped of" the "wood, hay, stubble" of men which have no place in heaven. This is not punishment for sin but a "final cleansing" of the spirit, if you will (same thought in Phil 3:21).

3) As such, it takes place at the Bema after the rapture.

skypair

standingfirminChrist · Dec 25, 2007

My take on it is we will all, not some, stand before the judgment seat of Christ. If what the poster said is true, then that leaves windows open for many grievous sins with no need to worry about judgment.

For instance, if I as a believer decided to go out today and rob a bank or armored car, stole a half million dollars, and did not get caught, I would not have to worry about any penalty or judgment whatsoever. I do not believe this is true. We will stand before Christ and have to give account for our deeds.

As to our casting crowns at His feet, I do not believe that will be done. John only saw four and twenty elders laying their crowns before the feet of God, no one else.

JustChristian · Dec 26, 2007

Mr

Allan said:

Albert Barnes (1798-1870) in his NT Notes states:

Charles Hodge (1797-1878)

JAMIESON-FAUSSETT-BROWN (1871)

Matthew Henry (1662-1714)

Not sure what you are looking for exactly but it has been apparently a commonly held belief that this is speaking of the Day of Judgment or Bema Seat for Christians and this is not a seat about condemnation but rewards that shall and should/could have been given.

The Scofield Reference Bible was not even in print until 1909.
Oxford University Press published The Scofield Reference Bible. It was released to the public in January, 1909, and revised by Scofield and his team of consultants as the New and Improved Edition in 1917.
Click to expand...

Referring to this as the Day of the Lord does not call it the Bema Seat of Christ nor does it describe the event as being one intended to hand out rewards to the saved. I believe in THE Day of the Lord, one judgment for all. One description of this final judgment is found in MA 25:

Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Mat 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed [thee]? or thirsty, and gave [thee] drink?
Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took [thee] in? or naked, and clothed [thee]?
Mat 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [it] unto me.
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of the least of these, ye did [it] not to me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Who are the saved and who are the damned?

The SAME event is described in REV 20:

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Who is found in the Book of Life and who is not?

Hbr 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Brother Bob · Dec 26, 2007

I go with what Jesus Himself taught about the resurrection and believe any wrongs Christians do are dealt with here in this life by the chastisement of the Lord, so that He can present us blameless, body, soul and spirit.

Jhn 5:28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

Jhn 5:29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

I believe we are judged every day, of our lives, both saints and sinners, and in the resurrection it will be as Paul said, The whole creation groaneth together until now, waiting for the redemption of our bodies, For the creature itself shall be delivered ALSO.

Rom 8:23And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.

It will be a swift deliverance from the grave to meet the Lord in the air.

Sown in corruption, raised incorruptible, sown a natural, raised a spiritual, sown in weakness, raised in power, sown in dishonor, raised in Glory. How could you be raised a glorified body and still have to face judgement, don't make sense does it? (This says it all for the Christians, as far as I understand), but woe unto the inhabiters of the earth.

BBob,

landmarker33 · Dec 31, 2007

I agree with you on the parable of the 10 virgins. I am also curious to hear your thoughts on MT. 13 "Parable of the talents" Does the Lord call any unsaved person a servant or slave to do his business? Also, what talent did he receive and hid?

Just another quick thought paul to the church at Corinth (Chapter 11:31-32) "But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged.

32 But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world.

Also Phil. 3:8-12... What does Paul need to lay hold of v.12?

8 More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ,

9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,

10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death;

11 in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.

12 Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.

There is a difference between the salvation of the soul (life) and spirit.

Just some thoughts...

standingfirminChrist · Dec 31, 2007

Judas was a servant of Christ but was the son of perdition. He was not saved.

Difference in Salvation of soul and spirit? Are you another of those ME crowd?

Allan · Dec 31, 2007

Allan said:

Albert Barnes (1798-1870) in his NT Notes states:

Charles Hodge (1797-1878)

JAMIESON-FAUSSETT-BROWN (1871)

Matthew Henry (1662-1714)

Not sure what you are looking for exactly but it has been apparently a commonly held belief that this is speaking of the Day of Judgment or Bema Seat for Christians and this is not a seat about condemnation but rewards that shall and should/could have been given.

The Scofield Reference Bible was not even in print until 1909.
Oxford University Press published The Scofield Reference Bible. It was released to the public in January, 1909, and revised by Scofield and his team of consultants as the New and Improved Edition in 1917.
Click to expand...

Did you get what you needed?

landmarker33 · Jan 1, 2008

standingfirminChrist: "Judas was a servant of Christ but was the son of perdition. He was not saved." He was a devil that was chosen. Jn 6:70; JN 13:11) Where is Judas ever called a servant of Christ?

Yes Judas was not saved and the son of destruction. Correct.

Difference in Salvation of soul and spirit? Please consider 1Thess. 5:23 "Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit AND soul AND body be preserved complete without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Why all three?

Are you another of those "ME" crowd?

Don't know what a "ME crowd is?

standingfirminChrist · Jan 1, 2008

ME crowd preaches the salvation of soul and spirit are two different things.

ME? Millenial Exclusion. They believe some saved will be cast into outer darkness/hell.

landmarker33 · Jan 1, 2008

I believe the soul and spirit are two different things. How could they be the same? 1Thess. 5:23; Heb. 4:12; Lk 1:46. The words are even different.

Soul: Psuche- In common with animals, the life element
Spirit: Pneuma- Denotes wind, breath, blow, immaterial invisable part of man. (Lk 8:55; 24:37,39; Acts 7:59; 1 Cor. 5:3-5; Jms 2:26, etc.,

Through the spirit is how we communicate with God. Our life (soul) is where the fruits are seen both of the spirit and in the flesh.

Notice Mt. 25... The Lord gave them all talents so they could do His business, they are all called slaves (those equiped to do the Master's work) since when does the Lord give an unsaved person work to do for Him? This is not about who is born of the spirit or not, but rather who has been faithful or not. Outter darkness is not hell, it is a position that one by choice (for ones unfaithfulness) will be further from the light.

Notice Paul's letter to Timothy (2Tim. 2:11-13) "It is a "trustworthy" statement: For "IF" we (we His N.T. church-saved baptized believers) died with Him, ( died with Him-Gal 2:19-20) we shall live with Him; (V.12) "If" we endure, we shall also reign with Him; "If" we deny Him, He also will deny us; (ruling and reigning- a position of honor. Rev.19:6)
(V.13) "If" we are faithless, He remains faithful; for He CANNOT deny Himself.

Gal. 6:7 " Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a mans sows, this he will also reap."

He is writing to a church of saved baptized believers. Why should they take heed of this warning is irrelevant ?

Lord bless

standingfirminChrist · Jan 1, 2008

As I stated earlier, Judas was used by the Lord, but he was not saved.

So you believe some Christians will be cast into outer darkness?

landmarker33 · Jan 1, 2008

standingfirminChrist said:

As I stated earlier, Judas was used by the Lord, but he was not saved.

So you believe some Christians will be cast into outer darkness?
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I believe what Jesus said in Mt.25:23-24; 29-30.. notice the word faithful
Unfaithful servants, stewards, slaves, in the Lord's church will be in outer darkness. Does our service in the Lord's church mean anything? Eph. 3:21

Where does it say the unfaithful will inherit? In fact it says the meek will inherit the earth. Mt.5:5. Justice must go both ways as seen in the parable of the talents. Not all judgements are negative.

Heb. 10:25-31. Who is this applied to?

standingfirminChrist · Jan 1, 2008

So you are a member of the ME (Mercy Eliminated) crowd that got banned for the heretical teaching of Christians being cast into outer darkness.

You weren't planning on staying long, were you?

Saved will not find themselfves in hell or outer darkness.

landmarker33 · Jan 1, 2008

standingfirminChrist said:

So you are a member of the ME crowd that got banned for the heretical teaching of Christians being cast into outer darkness.

You weren't planning on staying long, were you?

Saved will not find themselfves in hell or outer darkness.
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So no verses to back up your conviction... I never said the saved will go to hell.. I said outer darkness. Those who have been born of the spirit (Rms 10:9-13) will never go to hell.

Why is it heretical teaching when I gave you pleny of verses?

Show me please where hell and outer darkness are the same place? Also, will the lost and the saved be judged at the same time as in Mt. 25? If what you are saying is correct show me when the lost/unsaved and the saved are judged at the same time as in the parable of the talents?

Don't get mad, prove your convictions with God's word...

landmarker33 · Jan 1, 2008

standingfirminChrist said:

So you are a member of the ME (Mercy Eliminated) crowd that got banned for the heretical teaching of Christians being cast into outer darkness.

You weren't planning on staying long, were you?

Saved will not find themselfves in hell or outer darkness.
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Did not mean to stump you, I just wanted to get some good biblical dialogue going…:godisgood:

If there is not "Mercy Eliminated" for the unfaithful saved... then there must not be any "Mercy Eliminated" with the unsaved too...

Heb. 9:27 "It is appointed unto man (all men) once to die, after this the judgement"

standingfirminChrist · Jan 1, 2008

The saved will be judged according to their works at the JSoC, not their sins. Their sins were paid for at the cross.

At the JSoC, they will suffer loss for certain things done as Christians... but not be cast into outer darkness.

They will lose rewards. Crowns. Not their place in the Kingdom.

The unrighteous will find their place in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone. Those who have placed their faith in Christ are made clean by His blood. They will be presented spotless and blameless before the Father... not cast away.

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