Just how much more can the US debt take on?

[righteousdude2]

I asked this in another thread, and may have not presented clearly, because the responses seemed to address being open to helping the down trodden and poor from other countries who come illegally or by presidential invitation.

So let's just ask if the hard working people should be expected to see their tax dollars spent on non Americans, and frivolous things. What I want to know is just how much more this country can give before it sends us into bankruptcy? And isn't it the responsibility of our elected officials to be PRUDENT and WISE in how they spend and manage our money and this nation?

Should there be a cut off point? A red line in the sand, on spending and who, what and how much we give to non Americans in this country without invitation?

 

[poncho]

It's easy to give away other people's money when they hand you a credit card with their name on it.

Who here would hand another person a credit card with your name on it and do nothing but complain while that person ran you into bankruptcy? C'mon raise your hand.

We handed congress a credit card with our name on it in 1913 with the Federal Reserve act and we've done nothing but complain about the rising debt ever since.

Evidently it doesn't bother us enough to even threaten to take away the credit card.

 

[TCassidy]

It's already too late. Our country is heading into bankruptcy and economic collapse as bad or worse than Greece.

 

[HankD]

Just how much more can the US debt take on?

Limitless as long as we print more currency to cover the debt.

HankD

 

[TCassidy]

Limitless as long as we print more currency to cover the debt.

Which leads to hyper-inflation. And restructuring after hyper-inflation wipes out savings and much investment.

When Mexico adjusted the Peso (January 1, 1993) down by a factor of 1000 it took 10 years to recover from the fiscal shock.

 

[church mouse guy]

I asked this in another thread, and may have not presented clearly, because the responses seemed to address being open to helping the down trodden and poor from other countries who come illegally or by presidential invitation.

So let's just ask if the hard working people should be expected to see their tax dollars spent on non Americans, and frivolous things. What I want to know is just how much more this country can give before it sends us into bankruptcy? And isn't it the responsibility of our elected officials to be PRUDENT and WISE in how they spend and manage our money and this nation?

Should there be a cut off point? A red line in the sand, on spending and who, what and how much we give to non Americans in this country without invitation?

We will know for sure on January 20, 2017--aka Freedom Day.

 

[InTheLight]

I asked this in another thread, and may have not presented clearly, because the responses seemed to address being open to helping the down trodden and poor from other countries who come illegally or by presidential invitation.

So let's just ask if the hard working people should be expected to see their tax dollars spent on non Americans, and frivolous things. What I want to know is just how much more this country can give before it sends us into bankruptcy? And isn't it the responsibility of our elected officials to be PRUDENT and WISE in how they spend and manage our money and this nation?

Should there be a cut off point? A red line in the sand, on spending and who, what and how much we give to non Americans in this country without invitation?

Your premise is wrong. We will not spend our way into bankruptcy on "frivolous things" like helping the poor and downtrodden from other countries.

Please get a clue and look at the U.S. budget. About 20% is spent on national defense, about 22% on Social Security, about 22% on Medicare/Medicaid, and about 8% on interest on the debt. (Guessing at numbers, might be off a bit.) Anyway, almost 75% of the budget is spent on things that don't "help the downtrodden and poor from other countries."

Also, we've been "printing money" since 2008 and I don't see a whiff of inflation, much less hyper inflation.

Furthermore, we are not Greece. We control our own currency and it's the currency of choice among world economies.

Undoubtedly we are heading down the wrong path with the huge debt we are running up, but we are not in danger of going bankrupt, and certainly not from helping the downtrodden and poor from other countries.

 

[TCassidy]

Please get a clue and look at the U.S. budget. About 20% is spent on national defense,

Check.

about 22% on Social Security

Whoa there, pardner! I paid for my Social Security. Just the interest on my and my employer's contributions for 50 years should be paying more than I get every month.

about 22% on Medicare/Medicaid,

Check. And this is the worst budget breaking boondoggle!

and about 8% on interest on the debt. (Guessing at numbers, might be off a bit.) Anyway, almost 75% of the budget is spent on things that don't "help the downtrodden and poor from other countries."

Agreed. But why should we? How about we take care of our own downtrodden and poor first then look elsewhere for people to help? It is a national disgrace that there are 50,000 homeless veterans in the US. There are 200,000 homeless children in the US usually from single parent families.

Charity begins at home. Let's fix our problems before taking the entire world on our shoulders.

Also, we've been "printing money" since 2008 and I don't see a whiff of inflation, much less hyper inflation.

First we are not printing fiat money at the rate of our national debt. (Yes, I know that all money not based on a commodity such as gold or silver is technically fiat money. But money based on GDP is not really fiat money. It is representative money. It represents the growth of the GDP.)

Second, although inflation in 2008 was 0 (down from 4.1% in 2007) and is zero again in 2015, the years in between have not been so good. Granted the 3% high in 2011 is a far cry from the 10.4% we experienced under the Carter Administration but it is still an ill wind blowing, significantly more that a mere "whiff."

Furthermore, we are not Greece. We control our own currency and it's the currency of choice among world economies.

Actually, today, that would be the Chinese Yuan.

Undoubtedly we are heading down the wrong path with the huge debt we are running up, but we are not in danger of going bankrupt, and certainly not from helping the downtrodden and poor from other countries.

Yep. Nope. And nope.

 

[InTheLight]

Agreed. But why should we? How about we take care of our own downtrodden and poor first then look elsewhere for people to help? It is a national disgrace that there are 50,000 homeless veterans in the US. There are 200,000 homeless children in the US usually from single parent families.
Charity begins at home. Let's fix our problems before taking the entire world on our shoulders.

I can agree with that. I'm simply pointing out, as per the OP, that we are not going to go bankrupt from helping the downtrodden from other nations. It would be useful to get a hard number on exactly how much is being spent on this endeavor. I'm sure it would further blow the OP's fears out of the water. Help or don't help these people, but don't claim it's going to bankrupt our nation.

First we are not printing fiat money at the rate of our national debt. (Yes, I know that all money not based on a commodity such as gold or silver is technically fiat money. But money based on GDP is not really fiat money. It is representative money. It represents the growth of the GDP.)

Second, although inflation in 2008 was 0 (down from 4.1% in 2007) and is zero again in 2015, the years in between have not been so good. Granted the 3% high in 2011 is a far cry from the 10.4% we experienced under the Carter Administration but it is still an ill wind blowing, significantly more that a mere "whiff."

I'm guessing the 3% rate in 2011 was largely aided by gas prices. Lower gas prices this year is helping keep inflation down. Over the past 7 years, inflation has not been an issue. The Fed's goal is 2% annual inflation. Without some inflation there would be no wage increases (and perhaps pay cuts) and interest rates on savings would be near zero (like they are now.)

 

[HankD]

Which leads to hyper-inflation. And restructuring after hyper-inflation wipes out savings and much investment.

When Mexico adjusted the Peso (January 1, 1993) down by a factor of 1000 it took 10 years to recover from the fiscal shock.

Tung in cheek.

HankD

 

[carpro]

Which leads to hyper-inflation. And restructuring after hyper-inflation wipes out savings and much investment.

I thinke everybody knows that, but it just doesn't seem to matter. The printing presses have been running wild for the last 6 years.

 

[InTheLight]

I thinke everybody knows that, but it just doesn't seem to matter. The printing presses have been running wild for the last 6 years.

Which is longer than either World War. So when is hyper inflation going to start?

Too bad the search function doesn't go back very far. I'm sure I could find predictions of doom in every year since 2008.

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[carpro]

Which is longer than either World War. So when is hyper inflation going to start?

Too bad the search function doesn't go back very far. I'm sure I could find predictions of doom in every year since 2008.

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Are you saying that you don't believe printing money willy nilly will lead to hyper inflation? Might depend on your definition of hyper inflation.

I believe the government has been lying for years about the inflation rate by playing with the formula, plus the price of oil decreasing changed the rate a lot. Their numbers just don't match up with what we all experience at the grocery store and everywhere else.



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[InTheLight]

Are you saying that you don't believe printing money willy nilly will lead to hyper inflation? Might depend on your definition of hyper inflation.

We are not printing money "willy nilly". There has been a significant expansion in the money supply, yes, but it's not like the classic examples of post WWI Germany's Weimar Republic or more recently (1990's) as what happened in the former Soviet Republics (Georgia, Belarus, etc.) But, yes, printing money like those examples would certainly cause hyper inflation. Then again, there is no reason to print money like that unless the economy was in shambles. I would say hyper inflation would be defined as prices doubling in 3 months or less, to pull a number out of the air.

Another thing about the Fed printing money is that most of it is sitting in banks, not being used. So it's not really in the system. That's helping to keep inflation low.

I believe the government has been lying for years about the inflation rate by playing with the formula, plus the price of oil decreasing changed the rate a lot. Their numbers just don't match up with what we all experience at the grocery store and everywhere else.

Realize that the housing bubble has really skewed the results, giving lower inflation rates than in a normal housing market. As to groceries, pork, beef and some produce has gone up, but I can't think of much anything else. Eggs spiked this summer because of the bird flu.

 

[carpro]

[QUOTE="InTheLight, post: 2177585, member:



Realize that the housing bubble has really skewed the results, giving lower inflation rates than in a normal housing market. As to groceries, pork, beef and some produce has gone up, but I can't think of much anything else. Eggs spiked this summer because of the bird flu.[/QUOTE]

Come on! Where is your head at? What do people spend most f their money on? Food. Prices have increased dramatically. Shelter. You've covered to some extent. Medical insurance. Increased dramatically.

Yet, the cost of medical insurance is almost anon factor in the government inflation calculations.

We are being lied to. The inflation rate is probably 3-4 times what the government says it is.

And yes the government printing presses have been running like crazy for several years Mainly to cover excess government spending.

There will be a day of reckoning.


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[InTheLight]

And yes the government printing presses have been running like crazy for several years Mainly to cover excess government spending.

There will be a day of reckoning.

Would you be willing to set a deadline? That is, if there is no significant increase in inflation, say, above 8% annually by 2018 then it can be said that printing money did not cause inflation?

 

[carpro]

Would you be willing to set a deadline? That is, if there is no significant increase in inflation, say, above 8% annually by 2018 then it can be said that printing money did not cause inflation?

Indications are that the actual inflation rate is 8% or more right now.


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[InTheLight]

Indications are that the actual inflation rate is 8% or more right now.


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All right. Set your deadline when you think your so-called "actual inflation rate" reaches 14% which would be about when the government inflation rate hits 8%. When do you think that will be?

Otherwise you can say hyper inflation is just around the corner until it actually happens. Eventually, you might be right.

 

[carpro]

All right. Set your deadline when you think your so-called "actual inflation rate" reaches 14% which would be about when the government inflation rate hits 8%. When do you think that will be?

Otherwise you can say hyper inflation is just around the corner until it actually happens. Eventually, you might be right.

No way to tell with the government lying about the inflation rate and the unemployment rate both...and they are connected.


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[InTheLight]

No way to tell with the government lying about the inflation rate and the unemployment rate both...and they are connected.


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So you know the government is lying about the inflation rate and lying about the unemployment rate yet you believe them when they tell you they are creating loads of money and the interest rate is near zero?