Just what IS Submission?

[DiamondLady]

On another thread one of the members was told to submit to her husband, get off the BB, and was called a heathen.

Now this is not how I understand Biblical submission to one's husband, or one's husband to one's wife either.

So exactly what is submission?

Eph 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

Col 3:18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.

Are we to sit meekly in a ball in the corner until ordered by our men to do something like make their supper or clip their toenails, or are we strong right arms, with a wonderful God-given mind who respects our husbands and looks to him for comfort, strength, encouragement and support. Is a husband a boss or a partner?

What do you think? What is submission?

 

[Dr. Walter]

On another thread one of the members was told to submit to her husband, get off the BB, and was called a heathen.

Now this is not how I understand Biblical submission to one's husband, or one's husband to one's wife either.

So exactly what is submission?

Eph 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

Col 3:18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.

Are we to sit meekly in a ball in the corner until ordered by our men to do something like make their supper or clip their toenails, or are we strong right arms, with a wonderful God-given mind who respects our husbands and looks to him for comfort, strength, encouragement and support. Is a husband a boss or a partner?

What do you think? What is submission?

This is a very important question for our day.

Remember "all authority" belongs exclusively with Christ (Mt. 28:18) and therefore all other authority is DELEGATED and thus RESTRICTED within the boundary and frame work of God's revealed purpose for that delegated authority.

Hence, we are to be subject to government because God has delegated His authority to government. The design is for the government to be a MINISTER OF RIGHTEOUSNESS. God gives no authority to government to minister unrighteousness.

Likewise, with Husbands, parents and Masters. Their authority is limited "in the Lord" to his specific design for delegating authority to them.


The wife is to be in submission to the husband "in all things" JUST AS the church is to be in submission to Christ "in all things." However, the "all things" are further defined to be "in the Lord" or what is in keeping with His revealed will. This means, in keeping with the principles, precepts, attitudes that characterize Christ. She is not responsible to follow her husband in all things inconsistent with the precepts, principles and character of Christ exemplified by how Christ's loves the church.

A wife who does not submit to her husband in this prescribed authorized manner cannot really expect her own children to submit to her as the same boundaries apply to children obeying their parents "in the Lord" (Eph. 6:1-2).

 

[annsni]

I'll deal with the practical since I do every day.

First off, we need to understand that women were created to be a helper to men. Not a slave but one who will help the man in the mission that God has called him to. As such, we are not to be quiet followers but instead more like a right-hand man. One who is there to share ideas and vision and to work through tougher issues of the day.

With that said, it is the man who leads the charge. He is the one who is called by God to lead his wife (and love her as Christ loved the church) and children and hopefully, he is seeking God in what he does. His wife will give her thoughts on a situation but the ultimate responsibility falls on him and he will choose which way to go.

There are times in my life where I do not want to submit to my husband because I do not believe that it is the right choice that he's leading us in but I will instead pray that God will give him wisdom to lead us and make the right choice and to give me the peace and protection to follow him. Honestly, I don't think it's ever gone wrong.

 

[Tom Butler]

I'll deal with the practical since I do every day.

First off, we need to understand that women were created to be a helper to men. Not a slave but one who will help the man in the mission that God has called him to. As such, we are not to be quiet followers but instead more like a right-hand man. One who is there to share ideas and vision and to work through tougher issues of the day.

With that said, it is the man who leads the charge. He is the one who is called by God to lead his wife (and love her as Christ loved the church) and children and hopefully, he is seeking God in what he does. His wife will give her thoughts on a situation but the ultimate responsibility falls on him and he will choose which way to go.

There are times in my life where I do not want to submit to my husband because I do not believe that it is the right choice that he's leading us in but I will instead pray that God will give him wisdom to lead us and make the right choice and to give me the peace and protection to follow him. Honestly, I don't think it's ever gone wrong.

Ann, I want to look at this from a practical standpoint as well as a scriptural view.

For efficient function, a company (or military unit) (or government) must have a chain of command. Somebody has to be ultimately in charge. Same with a family.

Where there are two equal partners you will have gridlock when two differing views clash.

So, somebody has to make a decision.

With the husband-wife relationship, a husband who does not seek the opinions of his wife is a fool. A husband who ignores the opinions and desires of his wife is a fool.

A husband who wants to have the authority but not the responsibility is a fool.

As often as not, a wise husband will recognize the validity of the wife's opinion or action, and adopt it. He has made the decision.

A husband who treats the relationship as a boss-servant kind is a fool.
We're talking about each person's complementary roles, not master-servant.

 

[annsni]

Tom - I was thinking the same thing about the military comparison.

I have to say something as well. As a woman of God, I find it extremely easy to follow a man who is following Christ. It makes it SUCH a good reason to tell young women not to be unequally yoked because two people on a different mission will always clash.

 

[JesusFan]

On another thread one of the members was told to submit to her husband, get off the BB, and was called a heathen.

Now this is not how I understand Biblical submission to one's husband, or one's husband to one's wife either.

So exactly what is submission?

Eph 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

Col 3:18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.

Are we to sit meekly in a ball in the corner until ordered by our men to do something like make their supper or clip their toenails, or are we strong right arms, with a wonderful God-given mind who respects our husbands and looks to him for comfort, strength, encouragement and support. Is a husband a boss or a partner?

What do you think? What is submission?

Think that it is to honor and respect your husband for the role of being head of the family, BUT that you would also know to heed the advice and admonitions from a godly one who is following the Lord, and NOT do anything to disobey the Lord, IF your Husband asked/demanded you to do something like that!

 

[JesusFan]

Ann, I want to look at this from a practical standpoint as well as a scriptural view.

For efficient function, a company (or military unit) (or government) must have a chain of command. Somebody has to be ultimately in charge. Same with a family.

Where there are two equal partners you will have gridlock when two differing views clash.

So, somebody has to make a decision.

With the husband-wife relationship, a husband who does not seek the opinions of his wife is a fool. A husband who ignores the opinions and desires of his wife is a fool.

A husband who wants to have the authority but not the responsibility is a fool.

As often as not, a wise husband will recognize the validity of the wife's opinion or action, and adopt it. He has made the decision.

A husband who treats the relationship as a boss-servant kind is a fool.
We're talking about each person's complementary roles, not master-servant.

Wouldn't the Holy trinity reflect to us just HOW this should be working? As jesus submits to the father, Soirit to Both jesus and the father, so that though all 3 persons are equally God, each has a seperate role/responsibilty to perform?

Same way. Hus/wife equally before God, yet each has different/distinct roles/position in their relationship?

 

[DiamondLady]

Think that it is to honor and respect your husband for the role of being head of the family, BUT that you would also know to heed the advice and admonitions from a godly one who is following the Lord, and NOT do anything to disobey the Lord, IF your Husband asked/demanded you to do something like that!

JF, your first part is correct, it is to honor and respect your husband in his role as head of the family. However, I do not believe any Godly husband who understands his role in submission would ever demand his wife to do anything at all. Discuss, yes. Ask, yes. But because his role is to honor her as his wife he would not demand, anymore than she would demand.

 

[mcdirector]

I have to say something as well. As a woman of God, I find it extremely easy to follow a man who is following Christ.

Exactly!
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[Tom Butler]

Tom - I was thinking the same thing about the military comparison.

I have to say something as well. As a woman of God, I find it extremely easy to follow a man who is following Christ. It makes it SUCH a good reason to tell young women not to be unequally yoked because two people on a different mission will always clash.

Ann, you're on to something here. Submission as a Biblical principle doesn't work very well unless both husband and wife are submitted to each other, and both are submitted to God.

A wise man pointed this out to me years ago. The husband is the only one who is called upon to be willing to die for his bride, just as Paul said Christ was willing to die for his church.

 

[Winman]

Totally off subject, but when I was a senior in HS back in '72 Gloria Steinem and another feminist came and spoke to our Comparitive Institutions class. After speaking to us for about an hour they asked if anyone had a question or comment. This fellow named Ray who was known as a real smart aleck said,

"I think women should be barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen."

Whoa, you wouldn't believe it, Ms. Steinem and the other woman jumped up and came at Ray, knocking chairs and desks over. We had several teachers present, and they had to run over and physically restrain these two ladies. It was wild.

Man, those gals were MAD!

Off subject, but it was hilarious, although these girls really showed how hateful and violent they could be.

Ray, he just laughed, that's the kind of guy he was, a real smart (alec) [offensive word replaced.]