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Justification: On What Grounds?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by russell55, Dec 3, 2007.

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What is the grounds for our justification?

  1. Christ's death and his perfectly righteous life counted as ours.

    10 vote(s)
    62.5%

  2. Christ's death and our own Spirit-worked righteous record.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%

  3. Christ's death and our faith, which is accepted in place of our own righteous record.

    2 vote(s)
    12.5%

  4. My answer to the question is not included in the options above.

    4 vote(s)
    25.0%
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  1. russell55

    russell55 New Member

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    What do you believe is the grounds for God's declaration that those who believe are righteous? What scripture would you use to support what you believe?

    Here are the three most common views of the grounds of justification, as least as far as I am aware. The numbers of each correspond with the shorter options in the poll and are a more extended explanation of each option. (If you have a view other than one of these three, I hope you will explain it and defend it.)
    1. We are declared righteous based on two things: Christ's death for our sins, which provides the grounds for the pardon of our sins; and Christ's perfectly righteous life, which provides a positively righteous record that is imputed to believers.
    2. We are declared righteous based on two things: the forgiveness that comes through Christ's death for our sins; and our actual personal righteousness, which is graciously worked by the Spirit in those who are believers in Christ.
    3. We are declared righteous based on two things: the forgiveness that comes through Christ's death for our sins; and our own faith, which is accepted by God instead of works as the basis for declaring us righteous.
    What say ye?
     
    #1 russell55, Dec 3, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 3, 2007
  2. Palatka51

    Palatka51 New Member

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    Without His resurrection His death would be meaningless as well as our salvation/justification.
    Romans 1:4-6
    4And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
    5By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
    6Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
    1 Corinthians 15:12-22
    12Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
    13But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
    14And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
    15Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
    16For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
    17And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
    18Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
    19If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

    20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
    21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
    22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
     
    #2 Palatka51, Dec 3, 2007
  3. russell55

    russell55 New Member

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    I agree. If he hadn't been resurrected it would mean that God hadn't accepted his death on our behalf as complete payment for our sins.

    But I still think that the grounds for our forgiveness is that he paid the penalty (death) that we deserved because of our sins. Once the penalty for the sin that became for us was paid, death could no longer hold him, because he had no personal sin. The resurrection, then, is not so much grounds for our forgiveness as it is an indication that Christ's death was sufficient grounds for forgiveness.
     
    #3 russell55, Dec 3, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 3, 2007
  4. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    How does Romans 4:25 fit in? "Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification."
     
    #4 ReformedBaptist, Dec 3, 2007
  5. Palatka51

    Palatka51 New Member

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    Yes indeed it is God who justifies and in bringing Jesus alive He justified Christ's blood for the remission of sin.
     
    #5 Palatka51, Dec 3, 2007
  6. Palatka51

    Palatka51 New Member

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    Fits perfectly if you ask me.?
     
    #6 Palatka51, Dec 3, 2007
  7. Palatka51

    Palatka51 New Member

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    Paul makes a great point right here.
    1 Corinthians 15:17-19
    17And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
    18Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
    19If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
    Knowing that Jesus was a good man that even lived without sin is not good enough. You must believe that God rose Him from the dead.
     
    #7 Palatka51, Dec 3, 2007
  8. Palatka51

    Palatka51 New Member

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    Without the resurrection Jesus' death would have been just another tragic Roman crucification of a poor innocent unnamed man. No one would have ever heard of the name of Jesus of Nazareth.
     
    #8 Palatka51, Dec 3, 2007
  9. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    Then should the first option include mention of the ressurection?
     
    #9 ReformedBaptist, Dec 3, 2007
  10. Palatka51

    Palatka51 New Member

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    Yes, and sense it isn't I had no choice but to pick the last one.
     
    #10 Palatka51, Dec 3, 2007
  11. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    1. Christ's death and his perfectly righteous life counted as ours.

    2. If you did not choose option one, something is seriously wrong with your theology of Justification---it is twisted!

    3. I suggest you read Piper's new book The Future of Justification. Let him guide you through Scripture on this crucial doctrine.
     
    #11 TCGreek, Dec 3, 2007
  12. russell55

    russell55 New Member

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    The NKJV translates that "Who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification," which I'd think probably gives a better sense of what the verse means. Christ's resurrection confirms that His death was sufficient (and effective) as payment of our sin penalty.
     
    #12 russell55, Dec 3, 2007
  13. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    Well put! :thumbs:
     
    #13 TCGreek, Dec 3, 2007
  14. russell55

    russell55 New Member

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    No, because I don't think in the common formulations of that viewpoint, the resurrection is seen as grounds for justification. Rather, it is seen as proof, confirmation or vindication that Christ's obedient life and death were sufficient and effective grounds.
     
    #14 russell55, Dec 3, 2007
  15. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Option 1 mentions nothing of His death, burial and resurrection. I wouldn't choose 1 based on that.
     
    #15 webdog, Dec 3, 2007
  16. Palatka51

    Palatka51 New Member

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    Sorry TCGreek but according to Paul you can't have one without the other.
    1 Corinthians 15:13-17
    13But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
    14And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
    15Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
    16For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
    17And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
     
    #16 Palatka51, Dec 3, 2007
  17. russell55

    russell55 New Member

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    Here's what I'm not understanding from those who believe that the resurrection should be included as grounds for our justification (and I don't mean to pick on Webdog--anyone who holds that view can answer):

    How does Christ merit our justification by his resurrection? What does the resurrection add to the merit of Christ? How is it a work that he performs by which he merits something?

    Is the resurrection one of his meritorious actions? Or is it God's action by which he indicates that Christ's meritorious work is accepted?
     
    #17 russell55, Dec 3, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 3, 2007
  18. Palatka51

    Palatka51 New Member

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    Without the resurrection it means that God did not justify Jesus' life for it is God who justifies. No one has suggested that Jesus needed to merit anything else. It is God's stamp of approval on His life and death.
     
    #18 Palatka51, Dec 3, 2007
  19. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Well, since we are "in Christ", if Christ stayed in the ground, we would too.
    His deity, defeat of death, and our spiritual death.
    Please clarify, I don't understand what you are asking.
     
    #19 webdog, Dec 3, 2007
  20. Palatka51

    Palatka51 New Member

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    Might I suggest Sir that you read Paul before you call what I believe "twisted".
    Colossians 2:4-12
    4And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.
    5For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.
    6As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
    7Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
    8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
    9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
    10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
    11In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
    12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
    You can't have justification without the resurrection, it is a part of the whole picture of justification and the life and death of Christ is not completed without it.
     
    #20 Palatka51, Dec 3, 2007
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