Knowledgeable than your Pastor

[Bro. Ruben]

Been noticing here lots of people who excellently know their Bible; they also know how to defend their views and stands. And I praise God for that.

Wonder if these people somehow had "conflicts or debates" with their church pastors/workers during Sunday Schools and Bible Studies.

Had someone here experienced having a "discussion" with their Pastor in the church on certain doctrines?

Share us what happened.

 

[Deacon]

I do not hold to the 6-day, 6000 year young- earth theory.
My pastors do.

Years ago I (gently) brought this to the pastors attention.
While they disagree with me, they didn't think it was a problem.

I don't make waves.
They don't preach young-earth creationism.

I sure enjoy making waves here in the BaptistBoard though!

Rob

 

[Aaron]

I'm not too impressed with what's coming out of seminaries these days. Mountebanks and charlatans, mostly. I have great respect for the man who is my pastor, not because of his level of knowledge, which in spiritual things is immense, but because he's real.

 

[hillclimber]

Hmmm Deacon. What does your Bible say about creation?

 

[Deacon]

Now you see why I can strongly respect my pastors.

We have talked through the issue.
Both young-earth and old-earth positions can be supported by scripture.

Rob

 

[Bro. Ruben]

Let face and admit it. Some pastors, particularly newly graduate, have members who are knowledgeable than them when it comes to Bible doctrines and teachings. (but of course, pastoring is more than just knowing the Bible).

 

[Deacon]

...and a wise pastor uses those resourses.

Rob

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by hillclimber:
Hmmm Deacon. What does your Bible say about creation?

Bro Hillclimber, what
does your dictionary give as the
12 to 14 different definitions of 'day'?

Let me tell you about the 'day' that
is probably NOT in your dictionary.
While at one point on the Earth a 'day'
lasts 24 hours, if you take all points on
the earth, a particular day (such as
27 February 2006AD lasts 48 hours.

When my pastor came it was right before
the last Sunday in October, right before
an election day. Somebody put Right wing
Republican 'how to vote' material in the
autos in the parking lot. The new pastor
had the material removed. The new pastor
has been here 12 years. That particular member
of the right wing of the Republican party
doesn't attend my chruch any more.
BTW, I am a Christian first and
a 'Right wing Republican' second.
So, my pastor is a Democrat who things it
is the duty of the Government to take care
of all people who can't take care of themselves.
I'm sure not going skip out on his pastoring
cause i have a little difference on welfare???

 

[eloidalmanutha]

Originally posted by Bro. Ruben:
Let face and admit it. Some pastors, particularly newly graduate, have members who are knowledgeable than them when it comes to Bible doctrines and teachings. (but of course, pastoring is more than just knowing the Bible).

and that is the problem, as I see it. seminary teaches doctrine and theology from a denominational bent, leaving one to believe they have all the answers. seminaries also train how to preach and find resources to compose good sermons

to answer the OP, I have gone to pastors in the past to discuss topics, when they will allow it - most are not interested in what a lay person has to say - I guess they figure it's at sunday school or bible study that you need to find answers.

I am one of those people who like to tear sermons apart - not critically, but in comparison to the Word. Most pastors won't even go near you on this stuff.

The last two pastors that I asked to meet with me to talk, and I am not a confronter, but rather like to discuss reasonably - one told me that I was rebellious and laid hands on me to cast out that demon. The other guy told me that he would take what I said with a grain of salt - keep the good and throw out the bad. I gave up meeting with pastors after that.

I often wonder why pastors don't have a designated time of questions and answers to hold their sermon or message up to the Word, and even admit when they don't know an answer and will go and research it out. Just wishful thinking, I guess. Or maybe people just don't care enough to hold their pastor accountable.

I expect I will get some heat for saying all that

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by eloidalmanutha:
Most pastors won't even go near you on this stuff.

The last two pastors that I asked to meet with me to talk, and I am not a confronter, but rather like to discuss reasonably - one told me that I was rebellious and laid hands on me to cast out that demon.

I have met with people and often found that the majority do not come to learn or discuss but rather use it as a weapon against you. What does a pastor do when he disagrees with Billy Graham or someone who has written a book or preached on TV? Most people do not have enough tools to study out the truth and so trust the famous person.

I personally saw a church affected for about 30 years because someone in the congregation disagreed with the pastor and he created a major issue which divided the church. The church went from a vibrant growing church that shared its faith and discipled people to a dead church that did not share its faith and disciple people. 30 years later the troublemaker is still there and has been pretty much silenced. Recently the church got a new pastor (3 later) and is growing again. The troublemaker is off of any committees.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by eloidalmanutha:
I often wonder why pastors don't have a designated time of questions and answers to hold their sermon or message up to the Word, and even admit when they don't know an answer and will go and research it out.

I found out early on that mature people will enjoy hearing an "I don't know." Immature, judgmental people want hard and fast answers to everything.

The time to hold their sermon up to the word is in the study time.

At my last church I had a committee of godly men I trusted and picked who met with me each week and they would help me to do a better job on my sermons. They also helped me in knowing what was going on and what they felt was needed in the church. Sometimes I got some heat from some in the congregation for what I preached on which was recommended by the committee.

 

[eloidalmanutha]

posted by gb93433:
The time to hold their sermon up to the word is in the study time.

would that be study time with the pastor? or just a general Bible study - which really does not address the issue, in my opinion.

my "dream" is to talk with a pastor about his sermons. I want to know how they arrived at their conclusions, who they read or studied to come with concepts, where they get their information from - what scripts are they using to support their position - are they willing to discuss an issue or concept from different angles.

why is this such an unapproachable concept? are pastors afraid to talk about what they preach for fear they are seen as inferior? Why does the church hold them up to such a level of elitism, when it's obvious that many "lay" people know the Word as well, and in many cases better than the Pastor?

I really am bothered by this whole thing - bet you can't tell, huh?

 

[Jim1999]

If we pray and claim we are presenting the message God has laid on our heart, there is no one in any church that will tell me what to preach. On the other hand, if anyone wanted to discuss what was preached, I would welcome them in my study, and freely discuss any point.

Study beforehand and prayer is the key to preaching the message at hand. Far too many, I suppose, give too little attention to what they preach. I don't get involved in politics from the pulpit, and stick to the message of the word. I usually give the various understandings of the passage at hand, and then proceed to preach what I think is the correct understanding.

Where we get ourselves in trouble is when we go off on tangents as if they are concrete, and we refuse to give one way or the other.

I can't speak for all seminaries or Bible colleges, but I chose schools that were well grounded in solid theology. All preaching should be theological, but that does not mean cold and academic. Theology -the study of God - must not and cannot be ignored.

I would love a congregation who challenged the word, and I am not afraid to admit that I don't have all the answers on any given text, but I will give a reason for the faith that is in me, and the why's and wherefore's of what I teach.

The pastor is the one called to preach and ordained to present God's word. If I don't answer to that, I shall resign and move on.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[eloidalmanutha]

posted by Jim1999:

The pastor is the one called to preach and ordained to present God's word. If I don't answer to that, I shall resign and move on.

Cheers,

Jim [/QB]

I am curious where this concept comes from - that a pastor is called to preach and ordained to present God's Word. Got any ideas?

thanx

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by Bro. Ruben:
Been noticing here lots of people who excellently know their Bible; they also know how to defend their views and stands. And I praise God for that.

Wonder if these people somehow had "conflicts or debates" with their church pastors/workers during Sunday Schools and Bible Studies.

Had someone here experienced having a "discussion" with their Pastor in the church on certain doctrines?

Share us what happened.

I'm in a church now (probably not for much longer) where the pastor really does not have a clue.

He's a nice guy and pleasant to talk to about trivial things, but anytime you try to talk to him about anything serious concerning doctrine or Biblical teaching (I tend to to post mostly on trivial things here, so you probably wouldn't know that I'm a theology geek), his eyes just kind of glaze over.

I don't mean to talk badly about him, especially behind his back, but it's a little disturbing.

Of course, I should have known something was up when I started going there and found out that he showed up to preach on Sunday mornings in jeans and a t-shirt.

 

[TaterTot]

My pastor (and husband) loves when people want to discuss his sermons. Even if it is a disagreement, he is also willing to show them from the original languages how he got his conclusions. He and I attended seminary together, and even had some classes together. We disagree on some things. And thats ok. Iron sharpens iron.

Eloida...maybe you should try a different brand of Baptist. It aint all how you described, but i know that much of it is. God gave you a mind for a reason, and I believe using it is part of loving Him with it, as we are commanded to do. Too many times, we belive things because thats what Bro So and So said.

When we did resort ministries, we were members of an SBC church where the pastor was less knowledgeable than my husband. We still grew and learned, though. Its all in the attitude.

 

[Chemnitz]

If a person has trouble with one of my sermons, I am more than happy to meet with them. If I have error, I want to be able to correct it. At the same time they may have just missunderstood what I meant and I can have a chance to clarify.

The one thing that I cannot stand are the people who have problems going and talking with everybody but the pastor, for example we had somebody complain to others about us having speakers in the altar area during the Christmas service, when if he had asked myself, the senior pastor, or the music director he would have found out our normal sound system had blown out just before the service.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I love questions - our church is still small and sometimes I get them during a message

.

 

[StefanM]

Originally posted by C4K:
I love questions - our church is still small and sometimes I get them during a message

.

I actually got one last night during the Bible Study...in the middle of reading the passage!

 

[eloidalmanutha]

posted by TaterTot:

Eloida...maybe you should try a different brand of Baptist. It aint all how you described, but i know that much of it is. God gave you a mind for a reason, and I believe using it is part of loving Him with it, as we are commanded to do. Too many times, we belive things because thats what Bro So and So said.

well, actually, that is part of my pet peeve. we place so much emphasis on knowledge and learning from outside the Word, that our mind takes over what the Spirit is trying to show us. we live in an age of gnosticism and it's quickly turning us into philosophers rather than Bereans.