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Laci Peterson and unborn "Son"

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by John Wells, Jul 11, 2003.

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  1. John Wells

    John Wells New Member

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    "The bodies of Laci Peterson, 27, and her unborn son washed ashore in Richmond in April. Her husband, 30-year-old Scott Peterson, has pleaded not guilty to two counts of murder with special circumstances." - MSNBC News

    How is it that the same judicial system, the same press can state:

    The hiring of a doctor by a pregnant woman to terminate the growth of "tissue" in her womb is a mother's choice.

    But in the Laci Peterson case it is an "unborn son."

    Stated differently: The press calls a mother hiring a "doctor" to murder her "unborn child" the "mother's right to choose." After all it's only a fetus . . . it's tissue! But the press suddenly calls Laci Peterson's fetus/tissue an "unborn son." And the Supreme Court has ruled in line with what the press writes!

    I don't care which side of the toast you butter, that's absolutely barbaric logic. In fact it's the epitomy of injustice! :mad:
     
    #1 John Wells, Jul 11, 2003
  2. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    Very true. I think the logic is "if the child is wanted it's a child, if it's unwanted it's tissue".
    HOWEVER!
    Let's have some equal rights here! The father didn't want it. The most he should be charged with should be practicing medicine without a license. If a physician did it he would not have been charged with a crime, even though it was a late term abortion because it was in the best interest of the mental health of the father.
    Gina
     
    #2 Gina B, Jul 11, 2003
  3. DanielFive

    DanielFive New Member

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    Take your point but two wrongs don't make a right. It was murder just as abortion is murder. At least the law is right in this case, we can be thankful for that.
     
    #3 DanielFive, Jul 11, 2003
  4. ColoradoFB

    ColoradoFB New Member

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    As one who opposes late term abortions except in cases where the mother's life is endangered, I think both are not good. However, the murder of Laci and her child are obviously evil acts.

    I don't think that one can equate the abortion of a zygote or early-term clump of cells can be equated to this horrible event, however. Spontaneous abortion of such fertilized ovum take place naturally all the time, sometimes without the woman's knowledge.

    Abortion is way too common in our society. Personally I prefer to see it not used as birth control, but I do believe it is necessary to keep it legal, at least for instances where a person has been impregnated as a result of rape, or where her life & well-being are endangered by a pregnancy carried to term. I place the rights of a person already alive and born over the rights of a mass of cell tissue. At what point does a fetus become a person with rights? There is great difference of opinion on this, thus no one should be able to force their opinion on others. Work to educate and persuade? Sure. Outlaw any and all abortions? No.
     
    #4 ColoradoFB, Jul 12, 2003
  5. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24 Active Member

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    The person already alive and the "mass of cell tissue" :rolleyes: both have souls and are equally precious to God.
     
    #5 I Am Blessed 24, Jul 12, 2003
  6. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia Guest

    Colorado, Mind if I make a correction? You said:
    Late term health issues would result in a C-Section or labor being induced and not an abortion. [​IMG]

    Two weeks ago a woman in town went into labor at 20 weeks and delivered a 3 lb boy who is going HOME next week! PTL!

    Diane
     
    #6 dianetavegia, Jul 12, 2003
  7. computerjunkie

    computerjunkie New Member

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    Late term health issues would result in a C-Section or labor being induced and not an abortion. [​IMG]

    </font>[/QUOTE]Thanks, Diane!! I was getting ready to say the same thing!
     
    #7 computerjunkie, Jul 12, 2003
  8. John Wells

    John Wells New Member

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    Colorado,

    It doesn't surprise me that one who does not believe in an infallible Bible, who believes in evolution, would also be "pro-murder" (I refuse to call it pro-choice because the one with the most at stake, the unborn child, doesn’t have a choice at all!)! You're batting 1000 as one who claims to be a Christian with a secular humanist worldview! :eek: The two mix like oil and water.

    Once again you defer to what science says vs. what God says as to when life begins. I could give a flip as to what your science cronies claim (BTW, the majority of pathologists admit that life begins at inception). What does God say? He told the prophet Jeremiah:

    "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations." Jeremiah 1:5.

    "For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well. My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place (womb). When I was woven together in the depths of the earth (womb), your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be." Psalms 139:13-16

    “Spontaneous abortion” is God’s doings . . . let’s leave Him in charge!

    The old “rape and well-being of the mother” arguments! Just like the arguments for homosexuality refer to monogamous relationships, in reality all of these represent 10% or less of reality! :eek: Rape is horrible and I wish it would never happen, but two wrongs don’t make things right. Ask one of the hundreds of thousands of people alive today who are “rape babies” how they feel about “should they have been allowed to live?” Colorado, what if you had been one?

    As to the “well-being of the mother” argument, go into the consultation room with the family who is faced with the decision: save the baby or the mother. I don’t have the quote/reference, but a doctor who has experienced many of these situations said he is yet to run across a mother who said, “save me . . . kill the baby!” That argument is merely sensationalism on the part of the “pro-murder” crowd.

    Ahaz was twenty years old when he became king, and he reigned in Jerusalem sixteen years. Unlike David his father, he did not do what was right in the eyes of the LORD . . . He burned sacrifices in the Valley of Ben Hinnom and sacrificed his sons in the fire, following the detestable ways of the nations the LORD had driven out before the Israelites. (2 Chr 28:1,3 NIV)

    Abortion is a sin against God. Imagine the monstrous evil of a religion that offers young children as sacrifices. God allowed Judah to suffer heavy casualties in response to Ahaz's evil practices. Even today the practice hasn't abated. The sacrifice of children to the harsh gods of convenience, economy, and whim continues in sterile medical facilities in numbers that would astound even the wicked Ahaz. If we are to allow children to come to Christ (Matthew 19:14), we must first allow them to come into the world. ;)
     
    #8 John Wells, Jul 12, 2003
  9. ColoradoFB

    ColoradoFB New Member

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    John,

    I am definitely not "pro-murder"! Sensationalism and misrepresenting my position is not right.

    In any case, are you telling me that if you have a daughter, and she was raped and impregnated by the criminal, you would make her carry the baby of her rapist? THAT is a tragedy.

    I don't have any daughters, but I do have a young granddaughter, and I can assure you if that horrible thing were to happen to her when she gets older, grandpa will be there to support her whatever she decides, even if that is taking her to the Ob/Gyn for an abortion.
     
    #9 ColoradoFB, Jul 12, 2003
  10. ColoradoFB

    ColoradoFB New Member

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    Neither of those verses say life begins at conception. A zygote is not a person. the verses talk to someone who already is a person...not that every zygote is a person...a potential person, yes.

    And your comment at the end makes God into an abortionist, rather than attributing the spontaneous abortions to natural causes.
     
    #10 ColoradoFB, Jul 12, 2003
  11. John Wells

    John Wells New Member

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    If you are pro-choice then you are pro-murder. "Beauty is as beauty does."

    Your hypothetical case is a distraction from the real issue as it is very rare. Most abortions are for convenience, but here goes an answer:

    I do have a daughter (13) and if that happened to her, it would without a doubt be a very emotional situation to say the least. If I responded in the flesh we would go the abortion route. But if I responded in the Spirit, we would rally around her and support her through delivery and give the baby up for adoption so that my 13 year old could live a normal early teen life. If she were a little older, I think keeping the child would weigh heavier! Again, not a pleasant situation to find oneself in, but I believe with all my heart that abortion is not an option in God's eyes.
     
    #11 John Wells, Jul 12, 2003
  12. John Wells

    John Wells New Member

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    Babies/zygotes are always human right from fertilization, because all the DNA coding needed to build each individual’s physical features is there in the fertilized egg.

    I presume that your god of evolution sits on the sidelines, uninvolved with the matter that he created that has become a universe with lifeforms, including human beings. My God decides if every human being's next breath is his/her last! So no matter which side of the birth canal one is on, God is in control. He is the Author of Life, and He is the taker of life. He is God!
     
    #12 John Wells, Jul 12, 2003
  13. ColoradoFB

    ColoradoFB New Member

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    If you are pro-choice then you are pro-murder. "Beauty is as beauty does."

    Your hypothetical case is a distraction from the real issue as it is very rare. Most abortions are for convenience, but here goes an answer:

    I do have a daughter (13) and if that happened to her, it would without a doubt be a very emotional situation to say the least. If I responded in the flesh we would go the abortion route. But if I responded in the Spirit, we would rally around her and support her through delivery and give the baby up for adoption so that my 13 year old could live a normal early teen life.     </font>[/QUOTE]A NORMAL early teen life? Is it normal to force her to carry her rapists baby for 9 months. That is inhumane.
     
    #13 ColoradoFB, Jul 12, 2003
  14. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    Take your point but two wrongs don't make a right. It was murder just as abortion is murder. At least the law is right in this case, we can be thankful for that. </font>[/QUOTE]I agree with you completely.
    Don't think I'm against murder charges for the guy OR for those who perform most abortions. But...laws are laws and if they're to be followed then they should be followed, and if equal rights are the law that should be followed too.
    If he were only charged with practicing medicine without a license maybe it would be enough to make a lot of pro-murderists rethink their position and realize exactly what it means.
    Gina
     
    #14 Gina B, Jul 12, 2003
  15. Artimaeus

    Artimaeus Active Member

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    Inconsistency is the hobgoblin of liberal minds. :cool: :D
     
    #15 Artimaeus, Jul 12, 2003
  16. John Wells

    John Wells New Member

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    You asked for my answer and you certainly are free to disagree with it, but what is "inhumane" is killing an innocent human being! No amount of psychological trauma for a pregnant woman would justify taking an innocent life. You continue to support a "broader cause" from the point of view of an extremely small number of cases.

    As to "is the zygote a human being?"

    http://www.equip.org/free/DA020-3.htm
     
    #16 John Wells, Jul 12, 2003
  17. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia Guest

    May I add here that if a girl is raped, reports it and goes to the hospital... they generally do a procedure that would prevent pregnancies so this argument is moot. (Of course, if the girl doesn't report it immediately, the egg would be fertilized and this would constitute an abortion....)

    However, if my daughter had been raped and became pregnant, I would still insist she not abort (which she would not consider anyhow) and would support her if she decided to give the child up for adoption.

    Diane

    [ July 12, 2003, 01:36 PM: Message edited by: dianetavegia ]
     
    #17 dianetavegia, Jul 12, 2003
  18. John Wells

    John Wells New Member

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    #18 John Wells, Jul 13, 2003
  19. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24 Active Member

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    In the Bible, when a woman became pregnant through rape; wasn't the rapist killed and the baby allowed to live?

    We have come a long way baby... :rolleyes:
     
    #19 I Am Blessed 24, Jul 13, 2003
  20. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    Actually, I think his punishment was he had to marry her if she wasn't married or engaged already. :eek:
    DEUT 22:28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;

    DEUT 22:29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

    Gina
     
    #20 Gina B, Jul 13, 2003
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