Lake of fire

Yes.

Rev. 20:14-15 (ESV)
Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. [15] And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Rev. 21:8 (ESV)
But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."

 

Yes. And if we can picture our unsaved relatives, friends, and co-workers there, screaming in torment, in our mind's eye, we become more passionate and diligent about reaching them for the Lord.

Or if we picture them turning to us when they are at the Great White Throne Judgment and asking, "why didn't you ever tell me?" it gives us renewed boldness to witness and spread the Gospel.

 

AMEN!!!

 

We should believe that God will punish (it seems for eternity) those who do not meet the requirements for salvation; however, whether or not such a judgment will involve a literal "lake of fire," that in itself is not necessary for a Christian to believe.

 

Yes. It is very clear from scripture that they are placed in the lake of fire.

 

Nelson said all of us must meet:

What are the requirements for Salvation?... What do you mean by that statement?... Brother Glen

 

No flip-flop, this is what I have been saying all along. Just as you have read many things into scripture, you also read things into what I have been posting.

It is what happens after the non-believer is put into the lake of fire that we part ways. You say they suffer forever, the Bible and I say this is their 2nd death. This is when they "perish" for not believing as in John 3:16. This is when the wages of sin brings death.

 

"The bible and I say..."

[ May 17, 2002, 03:22 AM: Message edited by: Mr. Curtis ]

 

As in "the bible says and I agree". If you want to squabble over trivial things, it may mean you can't support or overturn the argument being made. In that case it is best to say nothing.

 

No, post-it. I will expose your lies & mistruths when I see them. I am not intimidated by you. My bible disagrees with you, most of us disagree with you, and there will be people burning in hell for all eternity who will be mad that they listened to you.

I do not consider twisting the bible around a trivial matter.

[ May 17, 2002, 04:12 AM: Message edited by: Mr. Curtis ]

 

That makes a great set of questions Mr. Curtis.

1. If by some million to one chance there is no eternal suffering for the non-believer, just a flat out death, would that make you stop being a Christian. In other words, you are a Christian based on the fear of eternal torment instead of what Jesus did for you on the cross or any other reason?

2. Do you think we as a Church should use eternal suffering threats to scare non-believers into becoming Christians?

3. Am I really doing any harm to others by my belief in the "no eternal suffering belief?"

In order to answer the last one (3), you must answer the first two. If everyone answers all three as yes, then I will know that I must be wrong.

[ May 17, 2002, 05:23 AM: Message edited by: post-it ]

 

1.Yes. When I realized my sins would send me to hell, because God cannot look at sin, I knew I needed a savior. The fear of eternal torment did a lot to get me saved.

2.Yes. I saw many people get saved after Pastor Richard Mosher, from Bellingham Bible Baptist Church, preached a fire & brimstone sermon in a park in my city. You could see trembling & fear in people's eyes. He didn't lie to them, he read Luke 17, promising them eternal torment if they didn't repent & believe. Praise God for that sermon. Many souls were brought to the Lord that night.

3. YES!!!!! This question is a lie. You do not only believe it, but you tell others that fundamental, bible believing christians are wrong. It's damaging to the work the whole church is trying to do down here. To save souls from eternal torment in a devil's hell. That is our work. Not to question, throw out, or ignore plain bible teachings.

Post-it, I really wish you would think this out better. I will be in prayer for you, I'm sure others will, as well. Remember, there are souls at stake.

[ May 17, 2002, 05:44 AM: Message edited by: Mr. Curtis ]

 

non believers will receive the second death NOT because of their sins, but simply because of their unbelief. Jesus Christ already paid the penalty of sins, however, there is still one condition that must be met...

What are the requirements for Salvation?... What do you mean by that statement?... </font>[/QUOTE]a soul must be as righteous as God the Father in order to be accepted. This is because God's standard is perfect righteousness, to which His Justice condemns those who do not pass and blesses those who do. the only way to attain perfect righteousness and thus be accepted by God is through faith in Christ, through which God justifies the believer with Christ's blood. indeed, there is no imputation of Christ's righteousness to those who do not believe although their sins are paid for by Christ.

Therefore to the unbelievers, though Christ paid for their sins, they are still not acceptable to God since they are not as righteous as Him. To be so, they must apply faith. Thus and once again, it is only their unbelief that non believers receive the second death, their sins having been paid already, while it is through faith in Christ that believers recieve God's grace of salvation.

 

"But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." Matthew 5:22

"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Matthew 10:28

"And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched." Mark 9:43-48

"But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him." Luke 12:5

"My flesh trembleth for fear of thee; and I am afraid of thy judgments." Psalm 199:120

"And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh." Isaiah 66:24

These verses seem to back up eternal torment.

[ May 17, 2002, 06:34 AM: Message edited by: Mr. Curtis ]

 

Faith in Christ.

 

These verses back up only death and the judgment of death, no eternal torment. They support the argument against eternal torment. I have detailed most of the reasons why in the other thread on this subject.

 

Yes they do, for those willing to deal honestly with "Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched".

Another excellent explanantion is CORAM DEO: IN JUDGMENT , and THE END OF THE WICKED by Jonathan Edwards

 

[/QUOTE]
Mr. Curtis, Since debating this topic, has your belief in the eternal torment doctrine been strengthened, weakened, or tested and remains the same?
No matter what your answer, it has been profitable to you. If it strengthened, then your faith has been increased. If it remained the same, then you learned nothing new and your faith remains strong and proven. If it weakened your belief in certain doctrine, then you may or may not have been wrong about something and it could have cost you at some point if you are wrong. It would also serve to help you discover that which is needed to bring truth to the matter. In doing so, your faith will strengthen even greater.

The very doctrine that cause many to disbelieve can be used to make them believe. The very doctrine that cause many to believe can be used to make them disbelieve. You assume that all Christians believe in the same things you do. You expect all correct Christians to believe in the same thing you do. You condemn Christians who don't believe the same things that you do. I use the Bible to compare what other Christians claim as well as the atheists. When anyone comes up short, I call them on it. I have called you on it and you have the same answers as the atheists do, you hold on to man's interpretations and speculations instead of examining the Bible for facts. You must be able to present a case which proves your doctrine when it can otherwise be proven with a different interpretation. If both case can remain in tact, then we have a doctrine that doesn't really have true meaning for the Christian. God could not expect that something of importance would be left ambiguous. There is nothing ambiguous about the Cross, or about the need for one to Believe in Christ to be saved. After that it starts to get fuzzy.

[ May 17, 2002, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: post-it ]