Landmark Baptists

USN, welcome. We have gone down this road a couple of times, I am not a memeber of a Landmark church but I, too, am very interested in the group.

As I understand, there are two main dinstinctives from some other Baptists. Firstly, Landmarkers are strong on the successionist view of Baptist History. That being that Baptists are not Protestant arrising from the 1600's, but trace our history back through the Anabaptists, Waldeneses, Montanists, etc. to the first century. Secondly, as I understand it, Landmarkers believe the only valid baptism is one that can be traced (spiritual heritage) back to the apostles.

 

So is the case of many IFB churches. I would have to say though, many SBC and First Baptits are rather protestant. I'm a member of the Landmark Missionary Baptist Church. A Landmarker? YES! And without shame.

 

I was told that Landmark Baptist was not a denomination or separate affiliation on its own..not like Southern Baptist is separate from the Conservative Baptist group, etc. (no website). Wondered why they didn't have their own organization? Also, there is another Baptist group called Missionary Baptist...wondered why most Landmark churches used the word "missionary" in their name..Most confusing.

 

So is the case of many IFB churches. I would have to say though, many SBC and First Baptits are rather protestant. I'm a member of the Landmark Missionary Baptist Church. A Landmarker? YES! And without shame.

AMEN.

I believe the missionary name was given to those who separated or were separated from in the 1800's because of 'modern' missionary movements etc. there is a link outlining some of these issues on the history forum concerning the Baptist Split of 1832, ck. it out if you have time.

There is a site http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LandmarkSouthernBaptist/

This site maintains that the Southern Baptist assoc. began as a landmark movement, some good reading here on history as well. It is operated by a BB member posting here some known as 'J.R. Graves.'

Hope this helps.

As far as the primary distinctions in Landmarker Baptists and others a good source is the book written by the real J.R. Graves 'Old Landmarkism' the issues now are becoming a distinction in 'mother-church' and 'self-constituted' church organization, an issue I have only recently learned of. this issue is found within the Landmarkers as a source of possible contention and further division.

Someone has said that most of the sources on-line are with a landmark slant, showing that while this was an error, they were at the least an outspoken group.

I disagree with the part about this being an erroneous teaching, but I do agree we are a vocal group.

Another good book to read is the series of sermons published by J.M. Carrol 'The Trail of Blood' I like this book, but I do think it is very general in its approach. A more thorough work in my opinion is that of Bro. Curtis Pugh published in Apr. 1994 "Three Witnesses for the Baptists" I have lost my link url to this, I will search for it and post it later when I find it.

God Bless All.
Bro. Dallas Eaton

Here is a link to Bro. Curtis Pugh's book:

http://members.aol.com/libcfl/witness1.htm
I will also post one to J.R. Graves work: I believe it can be found online at www.pbministries.org as well as many other good sources of Baptist History are to be found at the same site, just follow the History link.

 

If we define a Landmarker as a Baptist who believes Baptists go wayyyy back through the Anabaptists etc, I am definitely a Landmarker, however, the apostlic baptist line would be impossible for me to prove, so I couldn't qualify that way.

 

This is from a Landmark Baptist Church web site:
"Historical (Landmark)
Only Scriptural Baptist churches can make a legitimate claim to an unbroken succession back to the time of Christ and the apostles. Christ only built one kind of church and that church is described in detail in the New Testament. The only churches meeting the requirements of that description today are true Baptist churches. Baptist churches have existed in every age since their founding by Christ, though they have not always been known by that name. We do not deny that there are those in other so-called “churches” that have been born again by the grace of God. We do deny, however, that these man-made organizations are true churches of our Lord Jesus Christ." (http://users.aol.com/libcfl/libc.htm)

Jimmy

 

Here is something I ran across that I would agree with.

There are many definitions of Landmarkism. The Landmark Southern
Baptist holds to the theology set forth in the 1851 Cotton Grove
Resolutions and by the Old Landmarkers of the Southern Baptist
Convention as described in our Statement of Faith below.

OUR STATEMENT OF FAITH

1. A New Testament church is a local, visible assembly or
congregation of immersed believers.

2. The first such New Testament church was started by the Lord Jesus
Christ during His earthly ministry, and churches like it have existed
in the world ever since that day.

3. The Great Commission was given by the Lord Jesus Christ only to
the New Testament church.

4. Catholic and Protestant churches do not qualify as New Testament
churches because they preach a false way of salvation and/or practice
a false way of baptism.

5. The practices of alien immersion, open communion, and pulpit
affilation should be rejected.


Bro. Dallas Eaton

 

Thought this may be interesting:

The Testimony of T. G. Jones, D.D.

Tiberius Gracchus Jones was a outstanding Southern Baptist of the
19th century. He was well-educated, having graduated from the
University of Virginia, William and Mary College and Virginia Baptist
Seminary. He pastored the Freemason Street Baptist Church in
Norfolk, Virginia, the Franklin Square Baptist Church in Baltimore,
Maryland and the First Baptist Church of Nashville. Jones also
served for a time as president of Richmand College, as well as
serving several sessions as vice-president of the Southern Baptist
Convention.

In his book, "The Baptists, Their Origin, Continuity, Principles,
Spirit, Policy, Positions, and Influence, a Vidciation" published by
the American Baptist Publication Soceity, on pages 23, 24, and 25, he
wrote:

"...They [the Baptists] have always maintained that their churches
are as ancient as Christianity itself. That their foundations were
laid by no less honorable hands than those of Christ and his
apostles. In all ages since the first, the Baptists have believed
their denomination more ancient than themselves. The American
Baptists deny that they owe their origin to Roger Williams. The
English Baptists will not grant that John Smyth or Thomas Helwysse
was their founder. The Welsh Baptists strenuously contend that they
received their creed in the first century, from those who had
obtained it, direct, from the apostles themselves. The Dutch Baptists
trace their spiritual pedigree up to the same source. The German
Baptists maintained that they were older than the Reformation, older
than the corrupt hierarchy which it sought to reform. The Waldensian
Baptists boasted an ancestry far older than Waldo, older than the
most ancient of their predecessors in the vales of Piedmont. So, too,
may we say of the Lollards, Henricians, Paterines, Paulicians,
Donatists, and other ancient Baptists, that they claim an origin more
ancient than that of the men or the circumstances from which they
derived their peculiar appellations. If in any instance the stream of
descent is lost to human eye, in 'the remote depths of antiquity,'
they maintain that it ultimately reappears, and reveals its source in
Christ and his apostles.

"Now we think that this singular unanimity of opinion among the
Baptists of all countries and of all ages, respecting their common
origin in apostolic and primitive times - a unanimity the existence
of which might easily be established by numerous quotations from
historians and other writers among them, is of itself a fact of no
little value, as furnishing a presumptive argument of much force in
support of the Baptist claim. In England and in the United States
especially, the Baptists are now numerous, intelligent, and in every
way as respectable as any denomination of Christian people. Among
them are men, not only of unimpeachable moral and Christian
character, but of profound learning and extensive historical
research. And all these, as well as the humblest and most unlearned
among them, believe that Baptists, have existed 'from the days of
John the Baptist until now."

God Bless.
bro. Dallas Eaton

 

I read the link http://users.aol.com/libcfl/libc.htm and thought I could be a Landmarker until I got to the KJV being the only Bible part.....

 

Without taking a position on all the tenets of Landmarkism, Southern Baptists in the area of Kentucky where I live (far western tip, west of the two rivers) are very influenced by Landmark teachings. This is due in part to the influence of J.R. Graves in the 1800s and of some key men in the 20th century as well, such as Boyce Taylor, who pastored First Baptist, Murray for nearly 40 years, and of some men still alive, kicking, and quite influential, such as Dr. R. Charles Blair, who occasionally posts in this forum, and Bro. David Brashear (spelling may be off there). There is even a new generation of SBC landmarkers growing up--I know some of these young pastors.

 

Yeah, I worked in Mayfield for a few months when the telephone construction was going on, about a year ago. I know one pastor from Hickman Co. SB and Landmarker.

Where did you go to church? Mostly all I saw in Mayfield were Catholic.

God Bless
Bro. Dallas Eaton

Welcome aboard!!

 

I go to Trace Creek, out highway 131, running around 1,000 in attendance. There are 45 Southern Baptist churches in Graves County(Mayfield), and three or four IFB churches, and only two Catholic congregations. Trace Creek, Northside, and Mayfield First are very large churches. Out of 33,000 people, there are around 15,000 who profess to be Baptist (though it is hard to tell it sometimes). It may have been where you were working, because we have one community (Fancy Farm) which is 100% Catholic. As for the guy you met, all of the SBC pastors in Hickman County are Landmarker to one degree or another.

 

Thanks, you are right, the community we worked in was Fancy Farm.

Bro.Dallas

 

Mark, some Landmarkers hold the KJV-only position, but one's position on Bible versions technically has no bearing on whether one is a Landmarker. The Landmark issue stands or falls with ecclesiology.