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Featured Law Liquidated

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by NetChaplain, Jul 11, 2017.

  1. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain Well-Known Member
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    If righteousness (Gal 2:21) and redemption came by the Law then only Jews could ever be saved, for Gentiles were never under it prior to its annulling (Heb 7:18, 19; 8:7; 10:9). Until all the Law would be “fulfilled” it could not “pass” (Mat 5:18), thus its passing came when Christ fulfilled, or, finished it (Rom 10:4). Remember, it is Christ’s words that “shall not pass away” (Mat 24:35), not the Mosaic Law!

    In this article it makes a point that since the Law did not require one’s death for obedience, then “why did Christ die?” Thus it was His expiation for sin (after His obedience to the Law manifested His qualification for sacrifice which required a perfect subject), which voids the curse, and not His supposedly imputed Law-obedience to the believer. The Lord Jesus has always been righteous by virtue of His deity and sinless state (which His Law-obedience manifested), and it is this righteousness which is imputed to the believer!

    Those who were under the Law were “under the curse” (Gal 3:10), for it manifested souls to be “ungodly” (1 Ti 1:9), thus the Law could only direct toward deliverance, not effect it (Gal 3:24, 24), because the Law was “not of faith” (Gal 3:12) but of works. Hence we enter in, not on the works of man but on the works of the Lord Jesus Christ! Besides, the obedience of the Law required not just the outward working which anyone could have done—but also the accompaniment of a sinless soul by the Doer.
    NC



    Law Liquidated

    “Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness to everyone that believes” (Rom 10:4).

    When the Lord Jesus died on the Cross, He bore for Israel the curse of the Law, for they alone were under the Law. Divine Law, being broken, does not ask for future good conduct on the part of the offender, but for his death, and that only. Now Christ having died, all the claims of the Law against that nation which had been placed under the law were completely met and ended. So that even Jews could now believe, and say, “I am dead to the Law!”

    To him that believeth, therefore, Jew or Gentile, Christ dead, buried, risen and ascended is the end of the Law for righteousness—in the sense of Law’s disappearance from the scene! Law does not know, or take cognizance of believers. We read in Romans 7:6 that those who had been under the Law were discharged from the Law, brought to naught, put out of business (katargeo), with respect to the Law. The Law has nothing to do with them, as regards to righteousness.

    The words “Christ is the end of the Law” cannot mean He is the fulfillment of what the Law required. The Law required obedience to precepts—or death for disobedience. Now Christ died! If it be answered, that before He died He fulfilled the claims of the Law, kept it perfectly, and that this law-keeping of His was reckoned as over against the Israel’s breaking of the Law, then I ask, “Why should Christ die (since death is not required in the case of obedience—NC)? If the claims of the Law were met in His earthly obedience, and if that earthly life of obedience is “reckoned to those who believe,” and the curse of the Law has been removed by His “vicarious law-keeping,” Why then, should Christ die?

    Now this idea of Christ keeping the Law for “us” (for they will include us among the Israelites, even though the Law was not given to Gentiles), is a deadly heresy, no matter who teaches it. Paul tells us plainly how the curse of the Law was removed: “Christ redeemed us (meaning the Jewish believers) from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us” (Gal 3:13). It was on the Cross, and not by an earthly life of obedience that Christ bore the Law’s curse!

    There was no law given “which could make alive,” Paul says; “otherwise righteousness would have been by it” (Gal 3:21). Therefore those who speak of Christ, as taking the place of fulfilling the Law for us—as “the object at which the Law aimed” (Alford); or, “the fulfillment or accomplishment of the Law” (Calvin); give the Law an office that God did not give it. There is not in all Scripture a hint of the doctrine that Christ’s earthly life—His obedience as a man under the Law—is “put to the account” of any sinner whatsoever! That obedience which was perfect, was in order that He could “present Himself through the eternal Spirit without spot unto God” (Heb 9:14) as a sin-offering. It was also in order to His sacrificial death, as “a curse” for Israel (and for us believing Gentiles who were under the curse of “the law of sin“, which was incurred unto the whole world - Gen 2:17—NC).

    It is because Reformed theology (though well intended—NC) has kept us Gentiles under the Law, if not as a means of righteousness, then as “a rule of life,” that all the trouble has arisen (legalism, which was always Paul’s greatest opposition to the doctrine of grace—NC). The Law is no more a rule of life than it is a means of righteousness. Walking in the Spirit has now taken the place of walking by ordinances. God has another principle under which He has positioned His saints: “You are not under law, but under grace” (Rom 6:14). “For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death” (Rom 8:2).

    - Wm R Newell



    Excerpt from MJS devotional for July 11:
    “If and when the trial comes, you will find Him waiting there.” - MJS

    “We should always be prepared for circumstances that will arise, and for blessings that are to come, without foreseeing what these circumstances and blessings will be. This preparation consists in attention to present responsibility, and acceptance of present discipline.

    “If day by day we first seek divine direction, and then follow it, we shall be ready, when new circumstances arise, for the new blessings which will be offered. Today should be preparation for tomorrow. The only proof that we shall be equal to tomorrow’s test is that we are meeting today’s test believingly and courageously. The only evidence that we shall be willing for God’s will tomorrow is that we are subject to His will today.” -W.G.S.
     
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  2. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Romans 5:19; 1 Corinthians 1:30; 2 Corinthians 5:21 come to mind straightaway
    1 Corinthians 9:20. 'Not being without law towards God, but under law toward Christ.'
     
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  3. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain Well-Known Member
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    Hi MM, and thanks for your reply, which contains very applicable passages to the issue, but I wouldn't mind you explaining where these passages might refer to Christ's law-keeping.
     
  4. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    To take them in reverse order:

    2 Corinthians 5:21. For He [God the Father] made Him [Christ] who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.' Christ is the sinless One; He kept God's Law perfectly (John 8:46). We are sinners, subject to the wrath of God. Christ becomes sin, we become the righteousness of God in Him. That means that all our sin is laid upon Him (Isaiah 53:6) and His perfect righteousness and obedience is credited to us who believe. We have no righteousness of our own that is acceptable to God (Isaiah 64:6; Philippians 3:9), but are clothed in the perfect righteousness of Christ (Isaiah 61:10).

    1 Corinthians 1:30. 'But of Him [God] you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God-- and righteousness and sanctification and redemption.' Christ is our righteousness, not to mention the other things. :)

    Romans 5:19. 'For as by one man's [Adam's] disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's [Christ's] obedience many will be made righteous.' Adam was our federal or representative head; we were 'in' him (1 Corinthians 15:22). When he sinned and fell, we did also, in him. Christ is also our federal of representative Head if we trust in Him. Unlike Adam, He was 'obedient unto death' (Philippians 2:8) -- not just in death, but unto death. Whereas Adam fell before the temptation of Satan, Christ resisted (Matthew 4:1-11) and His obedience extended all the way to the cross, where He paid the penalty for His people's sins. So as Christians we not only have our sins forgiven, but God looks at us and sees the perfect righteousness of Christ (cf. Numbers 23:21)
     
  5. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain Well-Known Member
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    I think I see how you're trying to parallel Christ's Cross-work with the Law, but the passages still only refer to His ministry in the capacity of His expiation, not the Law, which only manifested He was qualified for expiation. "For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect."
     
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  6. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Matthew 5:20. "For I say to you that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.' Where will you get such a righteousness if not from Christ?
     
  7. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain Well-Known Member
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    Yes only from Christ, but never the Law, for "by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in His sight" (Rom 3:20).
     
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  8. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    The law cannot save because sinful man cannot keep it. Christ Himself becomes our righteousness. Christ saves by paying the penalty for His people's sins and by giving them a perfect legal righteousness before God. He becomes for us righteousness and redemption (1 Corinthians 1:30). Our sin is imputed to Him and His perfect righteousness imputed to us (2 Corinthians 5:21). His obedience makes us righteous (Romans 5:19). This is Luther's 'great exchange.' Not only are our sin's forgiven, but we are counted righteous before God.

    Let me give an illustration. Suppose you were found guilty of some crime by a court and given a massive fine that you could not save. Then some rich benefactor comes and pays the fine on your behalf. What would the judge say? "Well Mr Netchaplain, you're a very lucky man. You are still guilty of the offense, but you don't have to pay the penalty. But if you come before this court again, you will be dealt with most severely!" Christ does so much more than merely pay our fine. He gives us a perfect righteousness before God. We become 'the righteousness of God in Him.' '....That I may gain Christ, and be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith' (Philippians 3:8-9).

    For in [the Gospel of Christ] the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith, as it is written, "The just shall live by faith"' (Romans 1:16-17). This verse once terrified Luther because he thought that 'the righteousness of God' was the righteousness that God demanded, and that one had to be perfectly just before one could live by faith. The whole Protestant Reformation hinged on his eventual discovery that the righteousness of God is the righteousness that He gives us, and is nothing else but the perfect righteousness and obedience of Christ.

    I love the last words of J. Gresham Machen: "I'm so grateful for the active obedience of Christ. No hope without it!"
     
  9. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain Well-Known Member
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    I like a lot of your comments in this post! I think the Law was not intended to save because it's works and works do not save but can show one is saved, because one must already be righteous (by Christ) to obey God, which faith supplied by grace.

    The Law cannot effect righteousness because it is righteous and thus only shows one to be righteous if perfectly obeyed, which no man could do--except the Man Jesus Christ.

    If one could live his entire life "apart from sin" He would be living according to the will of God, but man cannot do so, "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."

    Even if Jesus did not live the Law He would have still qualified as a spotless sacrifice! His obedience to it manifested to man and angels His sinless, holy life!
     
  10. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Thank you! Glad to have been of help. :)
    One more thought: Romans 10:5. 'For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, "The man who does those things shall live by them,"' which I take to mean that if a man could obey the Law perfectly, he could save himself. But as you say, no one ever did that-- except One!
     
  11. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    ==
    "The words “Christ is the end of the Law” cannot mean He is the fulfillment of what the Law required. The Law required obedience to precepts—or death for disobedience. Now Christ died! If it be answered, that before He died He fulfilled the claims of the Law, kept it perfectly, and that this law-keeping of His was reckoned as over against the Israel’s breaking of the Law, then I ask, “Why should Christ die (since death is not required in the case of obedience—NC)? If the claims of the Law were met in His earthly obedience, and if that earthly life of obedience is “reckoned to those who believe,” and the curse of the Law has been removed by His “vicarious law-keeping,” Why then, should Christ die?"
    ==


    Killing Jesus was a sin. I don't recall Jesus saying "GREAT JOB GUYS.......oh oh make sure the nail goes through both the feet!"

    I put some bible verses pay close attention to the last one.

    We cannot toss aside the Resurrection as being crucial, essential, needed, required. According to Paul if Jesus did not rise we would still be dead in our sins.

    So this idea that Jesus took God's wrath on the cross , it doesn't fly. I've challenged others repeatedly before show me where it says God poured out his wrath on Jesus.


    ARE WE SAVED BY HIS DEATH OR LIFE?

    Romans 5

    10For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.





    Hebrews 10

    1For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near.2Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have had consciousness of sins? 3But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year. 4For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

    5Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says,
    “SACRIFICE AND OFFERING YOU HAVE NOT DESIRED,
    BUT A BODY YOU HAVE PREPARED FOR ME;

    6IN WHOLE BURNT OFFERINGS AND sacrifices FOR SIN YOU HAVE TAKEN NO PLEASURE.

    7“THEN I SAID, ‘BEHOLD, I HAVE COME
    (IN THE SCROLL OF THE BOOK IT IS WRITTEN OF ME)
    TO DO YOUR WILL, O GOD.’”

    8After saying above, “SACRIFICES AND OFFERINGS AND WHOLE BURNT OFFERINGS AND sacrifices FOR SIN YOU HAVE NOT DESIRED, NOR HAVE YOU TAKEN PLEASURE in them” (which are offered according to the Law), 9then He said, “BEHOLD, I HAVE COME TO DO YOUR WILL.” He takes away the first in order to establish the second. 10By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.




    Hebrews 9

    11But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation; 12and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. 13For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh, 14how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?



    Romans 4
    23Now not for his sake only was it written that it was credited to him, 24but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, as those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25He who was delivered over because of our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification.




    1 Corinthians 15

    12Now if Christ is preached, that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised; 14and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain. 15Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised. 16For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised; 17and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins. 18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied.
     
  12. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain Well-Known Member
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    Good stuff MM - There is no Scriptural evidence that any man other than Jesus lived the Law perfectly, because it wasn't given with the intention of living by it by for the intention of revealing it couldn't be done, thus requiring imputation from One who did.

    It wasn't the obedience to the Law necessarily that was intended but to all the will of God--with the proper nature, i.e. even outwardly doing what the Law stated was not the issue, but doing anything God desires (which even goes beyond law) with the proper nature; which nature was not available until Christ!
     
  13. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain Well-Known Member
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    Hi U - I'm sorry but I do not understand a relation of this to the issue at hand.
    I think I can agree with you here. I do not think the Father was wrathful to His Son when He put on Him all that the Father's wrath was to us, unless that's not what you're discussing, e.g. all that God's wrath involved to man was put on Jesus, but God was never wrathful to Him for any reason, but rather always "pleased" (Mat 3:17) for His Son agreeing to undergo it all for believers.

    This is what the New and Eternal Covenant is all about, which is between the Father and the Son, and believers being partakers of its benefits, the Father raising Him from the dead after expiating sin (Heb 13:20, 21).
     
  14. yod

    yod Member

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    This shows a lack of understanding for what "Under the Law" means. Paul uses the term to describe people who have sinned and will therefore be judged "under the Law".

    EVERY PERSON in history is under the Law until they come to faith. Once someone has put their trust in the Lord, they don't go "under the Law" by obeying God. That's just silly on the face of it.

    They can only go "under the Law" by not living in accordance to faith and truth.
     
  15. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain Well-Known Member
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    Hi Yod, and thanks for your reply! I believe the universal "law of sin" is what all are under (Gen 2:17), but the nation of Israel was also under the "Law of Moses" (Jos 8:31), never anyone else.

    God bless!
     
  16. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    And others have repeatedly answered you. Isaiah 53:6. 'And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.' In Psalm 7:11 we read, 'God is a just judge, and God is angry with the wicked every day,' and in Ephesians 2:3 we read that Christians 'are by nature children of wrath just as the others.' All God's people's sins and all His righteous anger against sin were laid upon Jesus. If it was not so, it must still be upon sinners.
     
  17. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Amen! I've been thinking about this post since you replied on the thread. It is, I believe, the best way of explaining the topic here. The Father never looked upon His Son in any way except love even when He put on Him all that the Father's wrath was to us.
     
  18. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain Well-Known Member
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    Hi JonC and thanks for your input!
     
  19. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Sorry that doesn't say God's punished Jesus with His wrath. Also that would negate the forgiveness of sins.

    Here is scriptural proof God forgave rather then charged Jesus with it:

    2 corinthians 5

    18Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, 19namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

    If the the trespasses are not counted that means charges are dropped, If however Jesus were to endured wrath of God then the charges still do count we being one with Christ.
     
  20. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    I think you'll find it does.
    God is reconciled to us through the atoning death of Christ, because our sins were laid upon Christ on the cross and His perfect righteousness credited to us who believe. God made Him who knew no sin [Christ] to be sin for us that we might become the righteousness of God in Him' (2 Corinthians 5:21). We do not become the righteousness of God in any other way than in Christ crucified.
     
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