Legalism

[Rufus_1611]

...

Joe will you please edit the previous post to clearly delineate which words are yours and which are mine?

 

[Joe]

God has given me the discernment to know that the "lost" are not "us". Do you believe the lost is part of your group?

Do I BELIEVE the lost is part of my group? Interesting. You use the word believe pertaining to me but yet you state God has given you discernment without error. A spiritual gift? So you don't believe, your thoughts are just fact.
You are NOT god, and can't make that determination as absolute fact. We do not know who will be in heaven, period. It will be difficult for you to debate anything on a reasonable level if you choose to elevate yourself above others like this.

Joe

 

[Joe]

Joe will you please edit the previous post to clearly delineate which words are yours and which are mine?

Yeah, I am not sure what happened. I was typing and wanted to shorten it but there it went

 

[Salamander]

I am most sorry that prominence has been given to what seems to me so small a matter—and the last thing in my thoughts would have been the mention of it from the pulpit; but I was placed in such a position that I must either by my silence plead guilty to living in sin, or else bring down upon my unfortunate self the fierce rebukes of the anti-tobacco advocates by speaking out honestly. I chose the latter; and although I am now the target for these worthy brethren, I would sooner endure their severest censures than sneakingly do what I could not justify, and earn immunity from their criticism by tamely submitting to be charged with sin in an action which my conscience allows.

Yours truly,

C. H. SPURGEON.

Thus even a man of his caliber can too sear his conscience in any matter he so chooses to continue to indulge even though he'd admit it to be offensive to his brethren. That is the epitomy of legalism in the adverse.

 

[Salamander]

The subject is legalism, what is it. I provided two good definations in an earlier post.

IOW, Rufus nailed you to the wall and you can't figure out how to get down.

 

[TCGreek]

How so? please explain

Legalism is doubting the finish work of Christ on the cross. Legalism is frustrating the grace of God (Gal 2:21). Legalism is bondage (Gal 5:1). Now, that is a stence.

 

[npetreley]

Nothing like a thread on legalism to get all the legalists to come crawling out of the woodwork.

 

[Salamander]

Friend, you said this to me "since Spurgeon is your man that encourages you to justify your sin"

What sin are you accusing me of and what Scripture are you basing it on? Perhaps I am in sin...my concience is clear, but seeing that you have judged it sin I want to be rebuked and corrected by God. So please, provide Scripture that teaches me:

I before e except after c. You have sinned against the rules of grammar and spelling too.

1. Cigar smoking is a sin.
2. Drinking alcholic drinks are sin, even when a person doesn't get intoxicated.

Verse?

 

[Salamander]

Nothing like a thread on legalism to get all the legalists to come crawling out of the woodwork.

Prove me to be a legalist by any definition.:wavey:

 

[TCGreek]

Nothing like a thread on legalism to get all the legalists to come crawling out of the woodwork.

I pray God that there're no legalist among us. Legalism is dreadful, and do not mean this in a hateful way. I'm just speaking my heart. The cross, the grace of God, are all nullified as a result.

 

[npetreley]

Prove me to be a legalist by any definition.:wavey:

Why? Are you one? I don't need proof. Your testimony will be sufficient.

 

[Rufus_1611]

Friend, you said this to me "since Spurgeon is your man that encourages you to justify your sin"

What sin are you accusing me of and what Scripture are you basing it on? Perhaps I am in sin...my concience is clear, but seeing that you have judged it sin I want to be rebuked and corrected by God. So please, provide Scripture that teaches me:

1. Cigar smoking is a sin.
2. Drinking alcholic drinks are sin, even when a person doesn't get intoxicated.

You seem to be well read and thus I suspect you are familiar with all of the arguments but have concluded as Spurgeon did. His pet activity/sin appealed to him the same as it appeals to you and regrettably his position gives you an authority figure to appeal to.

I believe smoking and drinking alcohol to be a sin, that's my belief and nothing against you brother, that's just the abc's of me. I think scripture demonstrates it pretty clearly and has been well-argued in the following threads...

Was There Alcohol in the Wine...
Is Drinking, Smoking, and Dipping a Sin
Yes, Another Wine Thread!?!
The Best Wine​

...as well as many, many more.

Thus, it becomes a matter of which argument we take. I used to chew when I played baseball but never chewed outside of the sport and gave that up by personal choice. I was a casual drinker who was a sometimes drunkard (though I now believe even a sip makes one a drunkard as there is no BAC test in the Bible) but I came to believe the scripture that states we ought not to even look at the wine.

"Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright." - Proverbs 23:31​

I began to understand what that meant "when it moveth itself aright" and concluded and/or agree with the conclusions that there are two different types of wine in the Bible and I am not to even look upon the fermented wine.

As to the other matter, I don't believe God desires we do anything that is unhealthy for us and there is an herb that is poison in the pot and I think tobacco, marijuana etc are poisonous herbs.

As to preacher authorities, you side on the side of Spurgeon. Spurgeon's cool and he preached a lot of good preachin. However, there is no perfect preacher and as Andy T rightly stated, Spurgeon wasn't infallible. From what I understand, the guy in your avatar (whom I admire greatly) was also a casual drinking proponent. Not only do I believe he was wrong on this matter but I also think he needed a haircut (There may be a connection there too as it is now understood that alcohol incites effeminate characteristics in men and masculine characteristics in women.)

Anyway, I side in favor of some other great preachers that were opposed to tobacco and alcohol. Most notably, relative to the contemporary cause, was Billy Sunday. I also would fully endorse WM Hutchings response to Spurgeon relative to this matter and I am a big King James fan and he wrote a treaty called Counterblaste to Tobacco in opposition to the habit.

Now, I don't believe that Spurgeon, Bunyan, Sunday, Hutchings nor James were legalists, for none said, "If you don't do such and such or if you do do such and such, then you're not saved". However, one of those sides was right and one was wrong relative to whether or not those actions were sinful or holy.

Finally, I will confess that I am not without sin even now, for I am not temperate in the food that I eat. Now I could defend it and say it's not sin or I could call it what it is and address it. I would thus, leave you with a great story that perhaps illustrates my point. Both of these men were men of God and both were right in their discernment of each others sin but it doesn't appear that either were able to see their own...

Moody had long admired Spurgeon’s sermons, and when Moody traveled to London, he went to meet the famous preacher. He was met at the door by Spurgeon himself, smoking a cigar. Moody was shocked. “How can you, a man of God, smoke that cigar?” Spurgeon was not offended, but he replied, “The same way that you, a man of God, can be that fat.” (Source: http://www.wcg.org/lit/church/communion.htm)​

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Moody had long admired Spurgeon’s sermons, and when Moody traveled to London, he went to meet the famous preacher. He was met at the door by Spurgeon himself, smoking a cigar. Moody was shocked. “How can you, a man of God, smoke that cigar?” Spurgeon was not offended, but he replied, “The same way that you, a man of God, can be that fat.”

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

That's hilarious. And I know a lot of other preachers that smoke cigars and drink fermented wine. I haven't bought the fundamentalist arguments, and I was a IFB preacher.

At any rate. Good post. I think it is a "I believe.." answer. To you it is sin.