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Let's properly define Foreknowledge

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by steaver, Apr 7, 2015.

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  1. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    We can come to an appropriate definition of foreknowledge by asking and answering a few simple questions;

    Did God know Adam and Eve would sin?

    If Yes, Is this God having foreknowledge Adam and Eve would sin?

    If Yes, Does this then mean God's foreknowledge caused Adam and Eve to sin?

    If No, then biblical foreknowledge does not always mean God caused an event to happen. Foreknowledge simply means God knows all things before they happen. It does not mean God directly causes all things to happen.

    God set Adam and Eve up in a situation where they could succeed, prosper and live OR they could sin, fail and die. God already knew the outcome before it happened (foreknowledge) but God did not cause Adam and Eve to sin. This is what Calvinism fails to understand. Calvinism cannot distinguish between what God has caused and what God has allowed by free will.

    In Adam, all are fallen with Adam, and all are in need of an atonement, God's grace and mercy. Throughout the scriptures God sets the same situation before all who have fallen in Adam, believe and live eternally, or reject and die eternally. In God's foreknowledge He already knows those who will by their own free will respond positively and those who will respond negatively. This is foreknowledge.

    In God's foreknowledge from before the foundation of the earth, God has provided everything necessary for human responsibility and God's righteous judgment. As far as all of the "what if's" that get thrown around, God already knows what the response of each individual would be or would have been. And the God of all the earth will do what is just and right!

    This is why God can say, "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." - foreknowledge -

    The word "foreknowledge" is used twice in the scripture;

    Acts 2:23, "Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain." - Did God make them take Jesus by their wicked hands and crucify Him? No, it was of their own free will, but God did have foreknowledge that it would happen.

    1Pe1:2 - "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied". - Having the proper biblical definition of foreknowledge, no further exposition is needed.
     
    #1 steaver, Apr 7, 2015
  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    steaver

    Hello Steaver,

    This is wrong in many ways as you do not have the proper understanding of the term or it's biblical usage.

    To come to a biblical understanding would be to see what God says the words mean and How has He used the term. It does not appear that you have worked on this at all.


    It did not work for you here for several reasons.
    No. You are confusing Omniscience with Foreknowledge.

    http://www.reformationstudycenter.com/foreknowledge.html

    Take a minute to examine this:thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
    #2 Iconoclast, Apr 7, 2015
  3. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    #3 Iconoclast, Apr 7, 2015
  4. robustheologian

    robustheologian Well-Known Member
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    But it implies that it was foreordained. The mere fact that something is absolutely foreknown means that it will inevitably and certainly happen—that action is determined to happen. So a foreknown action still isn't a free action (as most non-Calvinists would think) because it is pre-determined. The opposite of free is determined. If God predicts something happening, there's NO CHOICE but for it to happen. For it not to happen would make God less of God—which is veracious and omniscient.



    So what is the point of predestination (which Scripture clearly teaches as being real)? If your salvation is based on what you do there's no need for God to predestine salvation. So then what is the purpose of predestination/election?

    Oh really? lol

    Anytime the Bible speaks of God knowing an individual one has to remember that God knows everything. So when God tells Israel "You only have I known of all the families of the earth" (Amos 3:2) is He saying he doesn't know the other families of the earth? Of course not. Or when Jesus tells those who merely confess Him to "depart from me, I never knew you" is He saying he actually doesn't have knowledge of them? Of course not.

    For the best use of what "know" means in a Jewish context (after all one has to use Jewish context to correctly understand Jewish idioms) look at Luke 1:34. "Then said Mary to the angel, How can this be, seeing I have not known a man?" which means "I have not made love to a man".

    So the biblical definition of foreknowledge is to fore-love.
     
    #4 robustheologian, Apr 7, 2015
  5. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

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    The huge, error-ridden hole in this argument is that--generally--people are spoken of as being foreknown, not events.

    The Archangel
     
    #5 The Archangel, Apr 7, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 7, 2015
  6. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Uh no, foreknown does not automatically lead to predetermined. Foreknowing can be completely passive.
     
    #6 Revmitchell, Apr 8, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 8, 2015
  7. robustheologian

    robustheologian Well-Known Member
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    God has ABSOLUTE foreknowledge. The mere fact that something is absolutely foreknown means that it will inevitably and certainly happen—that action is determined to happen.
     
    #7 robustheologian, Apr 8, 2015
  8. robustheologian

    robustheologian Well-Known Member
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    Amen...Romans 8:29 doesn't speak of God foreknowing THAT (that they would come to Christ), it speaks of God foreknowing THEM (those that he would chose to be saved).
     
    #8 robustheologian, Apr 8, 2015
  9. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    I foreknew the potato onions that are up in my garden now because I planted them last fall.
     
    #9 kyredneck, Apr 8, 2015
  10. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    [​IMG]
     
    #10 convicted1, Apr 8, 2015
  11. Protestant

    Protestant Well-Known Member

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    The Lord only foreknows that which He purposed to come to pass.

    This pertains to persons……..

    Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father.

    And events……….

    Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain.

    God’s omniscience knows the choices He could make pertaining to Steaver’s life before He consented to create Steaver.

    The variables and permutations are nearly infinite.

    For example, the Lord could have placed the admonition to flee from idolatry on Steaver’s heart in such a manner that Steaver would never have considered making a Roman Catholic Crucifix his avatar, thereby dishonoring the very Lord he claims to serve in Spirit and truth.

    Ultimately, there is only one choice which God must make in order for Steaver or any sinner to have a good outcome in their 'final destination.'

    He must grant that sinner saving grace which is found only in Jesus Christ.

    Those to whom He wills to grant that grace are the ‘Foreknown.’
     
    #11 Protestant, Apr 8, 2015
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    In the NT sense of the term, it would refer to the truth that God foreknew those of us to get saved as he was the very cause of us coming to Him, as due to Him actively willing that we should receive jesus and have eternal life!

    God knew us du to Him being the Agent to start salvation process first, NOT due to him merely 'seeing: us coming to christ!
     
    #12 Yeshua1, Apr 9, 2015
  13. robustheologian

    robustheologian Well-Known Member
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    :applause:
     
    #13 robustheologian, Apr 9, 2015
  14. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Actually, according to Calvinism, my avatar was foreordained by God. He is the Potter, I am the clay, who are you to say why did God make Steaver oppose Calvinism? :tongue3:
     
    #14 steaver, Apr 9, 2015
  15. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    take no comfort there steaver.....judas was also foreordained to his final end. Many things are ordained to come to pass. Even the wicked acts of wicked men are ordained.
    23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
     
    #15 Iconoclast, Apr 9, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 9, 2015
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