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Letter from CBF Pastor Rev. Joshua Villines to MBLA Research Director Roger Moran

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Chris Temple, Oct 1, 2001.

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  1. Chris Temple

    Chris Temple New Member

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    Letter from CBF Pastor Rev. Joshua Villines to MBLA Research Director Roger Moran

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> The following letter from Rev. Joshua Villines was sent to MBLA Research Director Roger Moran after the 2001 CBF General Assembly in Atlanta. Rev. Villines has been active in CBF churches for over eight years, and was in the first class to attend and graduate from Mercer University's McAfee School of Theology, one of CBF's 11 partnering schools of theology (CBF's main offices are housed in the same building). He now serves on the Alumni Board for McAfee. Rev. Villines was ordained at Parkway Baptist Church in Duluth, Georgia - a CBF church where several of the CBF national staff are members. The Mercer publication Theology Update, lists places where "McAfee students and alumni are making their presence known." Rev. Villines is listed in his capacity as Coordinator of Progressive Clergy of Georgia, an explicitly pro-gay, pro-choice organization. Rev. Villines attended the 2001 CBF General Assembly as a representative of Virginia-Highland Baptist Church, a CBF church in Atlanta that openly affirms homosexuality. While there, he was one of the most outspoken supporters of the narrowly defeated motion to suspend CBF's new policy of not hiring open homosexuals. He also made the defeated motion to extend floor debate on the homosexual issue past the maximum of eight minutes.


    This letter raises serious concern for pro-CBF "moderate" leaders across the SBC who have claimed that "liberalism has not found a comfortable home in CBF." According to Rev. Joshua Villines, who is also a member of the CBF Young Leaders Network, states in this letter: "Having looked in some detail at the May 2001 issue of Viewpoint I believe your treatment of liberalism in the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship is even-handed and fair." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
     
    #1 Chris Temple, Oct 1, 2001
  2. Rev. Joshua

    Rev. Joshua <img src=/cjv.jpg>

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    Hey, I know that guy.

    Raging liberal.

    Shouldn't listen to a word he says.

    Joshua
     
    #2 Rev. Joshua, Oct 1, 2001
  3. John Wells

    John Wells New Member

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    Don't worry, I don't! :D :D :D
     
    #3 John Wells, Oct 1, 2001
  4. rhoneycutt

    rhoneycutt New Member

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    Lets see...using Mr Morans philosophy, on his website he has a letter from a clergyman who openly supports homosexuals. I guess that means Mr. Moran openly supports homosexuals. Hmm..

    We got a Boston Terrier from a friend, who is a homosexual, does this mean I openly support homosexuals?? According to the Moran method of research it would, but only as long as we keep the dog, which certainly will be longer than Mr. Moran kept his first two wives. But not as long as it will take to settle the civil lawsuits brought against Mr. Moran and his company.

    Yes, I get edgy over this guy. His methods of getting his "message" out have irreparably harmed the reputations of friends and people I care about. This isnt some nonsense I gathered from surfing the web or propaganda gained listening to an SBC professor at SouthEastern. These are real people being lied about.

    Shame on you Chris for trying to link Joshuas opinion to the entire CBF. Your guilty of the same misinformation that Mr. Moran uses. I probably agree with Joshuas posistion but if you think he was speaking for the entire CBF or any other Baptist ecspecially this one you are mistaken.
     
    #4 rhoneycutt, Oct 1, 2001
  5. Chris Temple

    Chris Temple New Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rhoneycutt:
    I probably agree with Joshuas posistion <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Open your eyes to the CBF deception. Visit
    The Missouri Baptist Laymen's Association

    I Thess 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good. 22 Abstain from every form of evil.
     
    #5 Chris Temple, Oct 1, 2001
  6. rhoneycutt

    rhoneycutt New Member

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    Sorry Chris I dont go to web sites that are infected with the virus of meanspiritedness and falsehoods. Plus I'll just take v.22 that you referenced to heart.

    1Th.5:21-22 but test everything;hold fast to what is good; abstain from every form of evil.
    NRSV
     
    #6 rhoneycutt, Oct 1, 2001
  7. Rev. Joshua

    Rev. Joshua <img src=/cjv.jpg>

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    Russell,

    I hope you did read my letter in its entirety. In it, I'm very careful to state that I do not speak for all of the CBF.

    Believe it or not, I actually agree with Chris here to a limited extent. I think the CBF has engaged in some deceptive practices (sweeping some of the liberal leaders who helped form the group "under the rug") in an attempt to win over conservatives in places like Texas.

    After talking to Roger at some length, I think he is a genuinely good person trying to do what he thinks is right. [If I ever find out the same thing about Al Mohler and Pagige Patterson (I doubt it) my whole world view might fall apart.]

    Roger doesn't think that everyone in the CBF is a flaming liberal. He is just an ultra-conservative who can't imagine a national baptist body with seminaries that produce people like me or that allows pro-gay literature to be distributed at its national meetings.

    Joshua
     
    #7 Rev. Joshua, Oct 1, 2001
  8. rhoneycutt

    rhoneycutt New Member

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    Joshua,
    I agree that CBF is not a perfect organization and I believe that their leadership is far more rigid than I would like for it to be. We are a few years away from being able to fully reinvent ourselves.

    All families sweep their wierdos under the rug when company comes to town, dark under there aint it??

    Im sure Mr. Moran thinks what he is doing is right. But that doesn't make it so. I would be willing to bet the leaders in the CBF with whom you disagree believe they are doing the right thing. Doesn't make it so.

    Speaking of CBF it is the best vehicle at this time that a Baptist like me has available to support Missions and Theological Education in a cooperative way with other Baptists.

    Russell
     
    #8 rhoneycutt, Oct 1, 2001
  9. rhoneycutt

    rhoneycutt New Member

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    By the way I think your World View is safe [​IMG]
    LOL
    Russell
     
    #9 rhoneycutt, Oct 1, 2001
  10. Rev. Joshua

    Rev. Joshua <img src=/cjv.jpg>

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    Russell,

    I think it's safe too ;).

    When I had lunch with Daniel Vestal a couple of months ago, I became firmly convinced that he is a committed Christian doing his best for the Kingdom of God. I like him and Roger both. Strange world, ain't it?

    I think CBF is our best option right now to. I just object to the dishonesty.

    Joshua
     
    #10 Rev. Joshua, Oct 1, 2001
  11. Chris Temple

    Chris Temple New Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rhoneycutt:
    Sorry Chris I dont go to web sites that are infected with the virus of meanspiritedness and falsehoods. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    They aren't; but you're rather inconsistent in belonging to the CBF then, aren't you?

    Its almost amusing how when a liberal has their veneer stripped away its "meanspiritedness and falsehoods", but when they vehemently attack conservatives its "soul liberty". :rolleyes:
     
    #11 Chris Temple, Oct 1, 2001
  12. John Wells

    John Wells New Member

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    If the liberals come to power would you, for the sake of the "Truth in Advertising" law change the name to "LIBERAL BAPTIST FELLOWSHIP?" That "God V6.0" webpage would be perfect for ya! :eek:
     
    #12 John Wells, Oct 1, 2001
  13. rhoneycutt

    rhoneycutt New Member

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    Chris are you suggesting that the "message" of Mr Morans site is Kind and True? You brother, are confused. No when I attack people it is out of my weakness not soul freedom. Im not as mature and gentle as I should be when I see men who profess to follow Jesus behave exactly the oposite of the way the scripture says he would behave. When they are willing for the sake of political gain to do and say things that hurt other people. That ticks me off whether they are liberal, conservative or somewhere in between.
    By the way I dont usually involve myself in the SBC/CBF debate on this board, its personal with Mr. Moran and his FALSE accusations on his video and the pamphlets he distributes.
    Russell
     
    #13 rhoneycutt, Oct 1, 2001
  14. rhoneycutt

    rhoneycutt New Member

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    By the way what do you mean inconsistent about belonging to the CBF. Are you saying the CBF is meanspirited?
    Russell
     
    #14 rhoneycutt, Oct 1, 2001
  15. ellis

    ellis New Member

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    Where in the world does he dig up the stuff on that site? I've never seen anything like it.

    Well, of course, as long as it is glorifying to God and lifts up Christ, what does it matter? (ellis, with his tongue in his cheek as far as it will go without hurting)
     
    #15 ellis, Oct 1, 2001
  16. John Wells

    John Wells New Member

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    Ellis,

    What exactly is it you have a problem with? Exposing the perversion of God's Word maybe?
     
    #16 John Wells, Oct 1, 2001
  17. rhoneycutt

    rhoneycutt New Member

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    John
    I wont speak for Ellis but my problem is the perverting of peoples posistions and beliefs for political gain.

    Chris
    You must have missed my earlier question. Do you believe that the CBF is meanspirited?

    Joshua
    I would love to read your letter in its entirety, Please email it to me.

    Thanks
    Russell
     
    #17 rhoneycutt, Oct 2, 2001
  18. rhoneycutt

    rhoneycutt New Member

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    Joshua,
    Hey hope you are well been a while since Ive logged on. I read your letter in its entirety and understand what you are saying. Unfortunately Mr. Moran will use it to further bash baptist bretheren who believe differently than he does.
    His activities are directly responsible for the unfortunate occurences with the Mo. convention and their leadership and now they are moving into NC with their activities. Lies, innuendos etc. repeated often and loud enough... well you know the drill. (Its the current Baptist Press Model)
    Im sick of good honest people being forced out of jobs, fired or having their reputations ruined.
    When will it end?
    Russell
     
    #18 rhoneycutt, Oct 11, 2001
  19. Joey M

    Joey M New Member

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    Isa. 5:9 "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"

    Mal. 2:17 "Ye have wearied the LORD with your words. Yet ye say, Wherein have we wearied him? When ye say, Every one that doeth evil is good in the sight of the LORD, and he delighteth in them; or, Where is the God of judgment?"

    I will pray for you.
    With love in Christ, Joey M
     
    #19 Joey M, Oct 11, 2001
  20. keith

    keith New Member

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    Joshua

    As a bonafide CBFer (who attended at Atlanta but too late for these debates), I agree that they shouldn't have closed any "flap" of the tent. I always favor inclusion over "supposed purity" anytime.

    My own view however is that homosexuality is short of what God's wants. If you have data (and I'm a scientific sort) that proves that sexual orientation is genetic (or even moderately predisposed by genes), then I may have to rethink. Please send me any info/web sites.

    Now there are many other things that are short of God's intention for mankind. Like being overweight, being angry, being judgemental, being envious. Most Christians don't not treat these sins with such vehemence as they do homosexuality. They do not demand one to lose weight for full fellowship or even for the so-called sensitive position of teaching our children. Judgmentalism seems actually like a prerequisite for leadership in many churches.

    Why Christians don't get angry at the things that Jesus got angry at (Pharisaism, commercialism in the church) more than what Paul got angry with in Romans 1 is bothersome. BTW the list of sins that God gave them up to in Romans 1 is a lot longer than just homosexuality. Check out Romans 1:28-31. All this just points out that the Bible is selectively used to reinforce traditional moires and prejudices much more than it is used to systematically assess/identify sin. Where is the balance? Where is the biblical authority?

    The inerrantists want it that way so that they can selectively accuse and thereby feel superior. Jesus had some real words for that attitude - You Brood of Vipers!

    Keep up the good work Joshua - I'm 90% with you.
     
    #20 keith, Oct 12, 2001
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