Levites and the Promised Land

[richard n koustas]

Who entered the promise land?

I know that Moses did not enter. I know that Joshua and Caleb did. I know that a generation died off during the 40-year wilderness travel – leaving only those that were under the fighting age of 20 at the time of the spying (Num. 13&14).

But what about the Levites?
Did any [or all] of the older [surviving] Levites -- that were above 20 years old at the time of the syping -- enter the promised land? Were they exempted from the curse?

Here is why I think they might have:

1. Eleazar (Aaron’s son) entered the promised land. We know this because we have mention of Eleazar several places in the book of Joshua. It looks like Eleazar was older than 20 years old (at the time of the spies) because he was old enough to have a son at the time of the Exodus (Ex. 6:25).

2. The tribe of Levi sent no spy (Num. 8:1-16). The curse in Numbers 14 seems to be directed against the spies (except Caleb and Joshua) and the murmerers.

3. The ones that died in the wilderness are described as “numbered” and ‘men of war’.

“For the children of Israel walked forty years in the wilderness, till all the people [that were] men of war, which came out of Egypt, were consumed, because they obeyed not the voice of the LORD: unto whom the LORD sware that he would not shew them the land, which the LORD sware unto their fathers that he would give us, a land that floweth with milk and honey.” Jos 5:6

When the men of war were numbered, the Levites were not numbered with them (Num. 1:49).

So, did the ‘older’ Levites enter the promised land?

 

[Allan]

Hello Richard! :thumbs:

Who entered the promise land?

Good question, hopefull I can speak intelligently on this.

But what about the Levites?
Did any [or all] of the older [surviving] Levites -- that were above 20 years old at the time of the syping -- enter the promised land? Were they exempted from the curse?

We can solve this little mystery:
A) Yes the levites were included. How do I know this, let us see.
We will see that ALL of Israel (over 20) was involved in their unbelief:

Num 14:1 ¶ And all the congregation lifted up their voice, and cried; and the people wept that night.
Num 14:2 And all the children of Israel murmured against Moses and against Aaron: and the whole congregation said unto them, Would God that we had died in the land of Egypt! or would God we had died in this wilderness!
Num 14:4 And they said one to another, Let us make a captain, and let us return into Egypt.
Num 14:10 But all the congregation bade stone them with stones. And the glory of the LORD appeared in the tabernacle of the congregation before all the children of Israel.

If you will notice in Num 14:5-6 Not one Levite stood with Moses, Arron, Joshua, and Caleb to stand for the Lord. They are accounted amoung the [All] of the children of Israel. So the answer of Levites being except from the curse is No, since the curse was not actually about the spies but about the unbelief we find from the Nation as a whole in Chapter 14 even to the point of about to stone Gods annointed man that led them out of bondage.

Dealing with your other points
1) Eleazar was excempt since he could have very well been under 20 years of age. The people of that age (and up until about a century ago) began marrying at 13-17 and it was a sign of blessing to become pregnant quickly. After 17 you were entering the old maid catagory but not quite there yet.

2) Actually it was not directed at the spies as we see in verse 11 it is about the unbelief of the people
Num 14:11 ¶ And the LORD said unto Moses, How long will this people provoke me? and how long will it be ere they believe me, for all the signs which I have shewed among them?[/B]
Were it states "all those men" in vs 22 and God contrasting them to Caleb is not a reference to the spies but if you will note it is actually refering to the believing spirt Caleb had than the men (in general) of Israel and their unbelief we seen previously.

The reason we see it noting men is they are the heads of authority over their homes, so how they act, their homes to will act as the follow the headship of the home.

3) Yes, It was how they could know the curse was coming to an end. The men of war werew repesentives of All Israel since they were the majority. Knowing this it was something they could tangebly see, but not know specifically when the curse was at an end. Much like the signs God gave us to know the coming of the Lord but never the time specific until it was upon them. And also why we are to wait and watch for that blessing of the Lord. But it still goes back the fact ALL Isreal stood in unbelief (those of the age of duty - to the nation, war, ect...).

The levites were not permitted to be men of war as they had a life long duty to the holy things of God. And numbered themselves seperately for differing purposes. But they still stood in unbeleif with the rest of Israel, which is why there were only four who stood for the Lord.


I don't think so. Maybe it helped, maybe not but figured I'd toss my nickel

 

[richard n koustas]

1) Eleazar was excempt since he could have very well been under 20 years of age. The people of that age (and up until about a century ago) began marrying at 13-17 and it was a sign of blessing to become pregnant quickly. After 17 you were entering the old maid catagory but not quite there yet.

According to Ex. 6:23 Aaron had 4 sons. Now if what you said is true, then he started to have children when he was a teenager. At this time he is probably 90 years old. so, his oldest children would be 75ish and his youngest 15ish?

Taking a second look at Exodus 6...it states that Phinehas (Eleazar's son) is one of the heads of the family. this leads me to believe that Phinehas was not a child. so, it seems to me that Phenihas may have been over 20.

2) Actually it was not directed at the spies as we see in verse 11 it is about the unbelief of the people
Num 14:11 ¶ And the LORD said unto Moses, How long will this people provoke me? and how long will it be ere they believe me, for all the signs which I have shewed among them?[/B]
Were it states "all those men" in vs 22 and God contrasting them to Caleb is not a reference to the spies but if you will note it is actually refering to the believing spirt Caleb had than the men (in general) of Israel and their unbelief we seen previously.

yes, but...how do you explain this verse?

“For the children of Israel walked forty years in the wilderness, till all the people [that were] men of war, which came out of Egypt, were consumed, because they obeyed not the voice of the LORD: unto whom the LORD sware that he would not shew them the land, which the LORD sware unto their fathers that he would give us, a land that floweth with milk and honey.” Jos 5:6

 

[Allan]

The scripture you site for Phinehas have a family does not place him as a leader or head, because he was JUST born but it is refering to Eleazar as and the others preceeding him as the leaders and fathers of Levites. Phinehas had no children as we never see Phinehas married and scripture never declares him to have any children.




HEY! You changed vss on me! :laugh: That is ok.
Jos 5:6, if we compare the statement made in this verse, “for the children of Israel walked forty years in the wilderness, till all the men that were capable of bearing arms were consumed … unto whom the Lord sware that He would not show them the land promised to the fathers,” with the sentence pronounced by God to which these words refer, viz., Num 14:29-34. The Lord is then said to have sworn that all the men of twenty years old and upwards, who had murmured against Him, should perish in the wilderness

In light of this I still stand by my first posting (Post #2 I think) on Eleazar being under 20. Remember a man to the Jewish people was 13 but he could not be a warrior until 20. I guess you could say they were kinda like America in that, you are an Adult at 18 but you can't drink until your 21. They were stating you can do what a man can do but were not ready take on ALL the responsiblities as a man for his nation.

The men of war was simply a term sometimes used to sybolize ALL of Israel since it was made up of the vast majority of the people. As you can see above the Josh 5:6 verse is quote from Num 14: 29-34 that refers to ALL Israel.

 

[Lacy Evans]

What a fresh topic. This one really has me thinking! We ought to give a "fresh topic award", (Like a Stan Lee Marvel No-prize) to anyone who comes up with something like this that is really different.

Lacy

 

[richard n koustas]

HEY! You changed vss on me! :laugh: That is ok.

I didn't mean to...too many cuttings and pastings.

The scripture you site for Phinehas have a family does not place him as a leader or head, because he was JUST born but it is refering to Eleazar as and the others preceeding him as the leaders and fathers of Levites. Phinehas had no children as we never see Phinehas married and scripture never declares him to have any children.

Let's look at the verse:

Exd 6:25 And Eleazar Aaron's son took him [one] of the daughters of Putiel to wife; and she bare him Phinehas: these [are] the heads of the fathers of the Levites according to their families.

This verse (sentence) only has two males in it, Eleazar and Phinehas. "These (Eleazar and Phinehas) are the heads of the fathers of the Levites..."

 

[Allan]

Yes, but you must take scripture in context of preceding verses and not just out of one.

Look at vss 16-27 to get what is going on:

16And these are the names of the sons of Levi according to their generations; Gershon, and Kohath, and Merari: and the years of the life of Levi were an hundred thirty and seven years. 17The sons of Gershon; Libni, and Shimi, according to their families. 18And the sons of Kohath; Amram, and Izhar, and Hebron, and Uzziel: and the years of the life of Kohath were an hundred thirty and three years. 19And the sons of Merari; Mahali and Mushi: these are the families of Levi according to their generations. 20And Amram took him Jochebed his father’s sister to wife; and she bare him Aaron and Moses: and the years of the life of Amram were an hundred and thirty and seven years. 21And the sons of Izhar; Korah, and Nepheg, and Zichri. 22And the sons of Uzziel; Mishael, and Elzaphan, and Zithri. 23And Aaron took him Elisheba, daughter of Amminadab, sister of Naashon, to wife; and she bare him Nadab, and Abihu, Eleazar, and Ithamar. 24And the sons of Korah; Assir, and Elkanah, and Abiasaph: these are the families of the Korhites. 25And Eleazar Aaron’s son took him one of the daughters of Putiel to wife; and she bare him Phinehas: these are the heads of the fathers of the Levites according to their families. 26These are that Aaron and Moses, to whom the LORD said, Bring out the children of Israel from the land of Egypt according to their armies. 27These are they which spake to Pharaoh king of Egypt, to bring out the children of Israel from Egypt: these are that Moses and Aaron.

As you will note it first delineates that these are the children of the Levites and only the male children. This is always how God shows the heads of the families and thus the verse you quote is about these being the heads of their families in culmination. It was already talking about the tribe of Levi from which Moses AND Aaron came and God is showing All the heads of the tribe to reveal that Moses and Aaron are leaders not only in calling but double so in the fact God is using His prescribed authority amoung men to declare that they come from and are heads in this liniage as well, verify God has and is indeed using them. Remember this is actually about Moses and Aaron relating to the chapter as a whole.

I agree this is a good refresh from all the rehash on at present. Thanks Richard! :applause:

 

[richard n koustas]

I'm glad to provide some refreshment...but you are still ducking the question on the age span of Aaron's children.

According to Ex. 6:23 Aaron had 4 sons. Now if what you said is true, then he started to have children when he was a teenager. At this time he is probably 90 years old. so, his oldest children would be 75ish and his youngest 15ish?

I realize that he probably had daughters and maybe not all of his sons are mentioned. But if he started having kids when he was a teen, as you suggest, and his youngest (or one of his youngest) is only 15 when he is 90, then his child bearing time spanned 60 years?!?

I don't know, I'm just trying to sort this out ...

 

[Lacy Evans]

then his child bearing time spanned 60 years?!?

I don't know, I'm just trying to sort this out ...

My oldest sister is 65 and my youngest is 16? My Daddy isn't even a Bible charscter.

Lacy

 

[Hope of Glory]

My oldest sister is 65 and my youngest is 16? My Daddy isn't even a Bible charscter.

Lacy

Are they Russian? We have some people out in the villages like that.

 

[richard n koustas]

My oldest sister is 65 and my youngest is 16? My Daddy isn't even a Bible charscter.

Lacy

Lacy, you're not helping...but you are giving me some food for thought.

 

[Jeep Dragon]

Lacy, you're not helping...but you are giving me some food for thought.

One of my cousins was an uncle at age 6 to his peers that he plays with.

During my teen years at a former church, I had two teenage boys at the church who grew up together and were the same age. I would swear that they are brothers because they in all psychological sense were. However, one was the other's uncle. I would also get a kick out of one of them referring to a man as his dad, while the other referred to him as his granddad. Thus, the one's father was the other's brother. That just strikes me as weird. However... back to the topic... :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Lacy Evans]

One of my cousins was an uncle at age 6 to his peers that he plays with.

During my teen years at a former church, I had two teenage boys at the church who grew up together and were the same age. I would swear that they are brothers because they in all psychological sense were. However, one was the other's uncle. I would also get a kick out of one of them referring to a man as his dad, while the other referred to him as his granddad. Thus, the one's father was the other's brother. That just strikes me as weird. However... back to the topic... :smilewinkgrin:

My nephew, Kevin, and I were in the same grade. He is 9 months older than me. His older brother, Kirk (deceased) was 2 1/2 years older than me. All of my siblings were grandparents before I became a father.

Lacy

 

[Allan]

I have not 'ducked' anything. I showed the verse in a part of a larger whole that shows MANY male children. They were the heads of the fathers of the LEVITES.

Who were the Levites?
They are the sons of Levi

Thus the heads (leaders) of the fathers (individual tribal lineage up to Levi) of the Levites (Tribe as a whole)

Also no where do we find Phinehas with a family or mention of any children. The verse you are asking the question about is concerning ALL the heads (leaders - male children) of the families (individual Tribal lineage - blood family) of the Levites (tribe as a whole). See verse in post # 7