Liberals Accept Responsibility for Killers, or LARK Program

Let's see...

"If we aren't allowed to torture and abuse these people, then you should have to live with them."

Something's wrong with that argument, somehow....:laugh:

But it certainly does have a neocon ring to it.

 

Cute link Ken.


I like this one better.


http://usaattacked.com/georgie.htm

 

No matter how hard I try, I can't seem to get him to STAND for anything...


http://usaattacked.com/georgie.htm



Jamie

 

Ken

That sounds like my criminal responsibility program . . .

put criminals in garage apartments with their lawyers for 6 months after they are released . . .

Every lawyer has to have garage apartments to practice law . . .

 

Underwear on the head is not torture. (well if theyre not clean that could be an issue) loud music is not torture, lack of sleep is not torture, lack of types of foods is not torture.

The ones complaining of these tools are the same mamby pambies that call their US Senator when their sons are being run to hard in boot camp. Do you know that after one phone call to a us senator the United States Marine Corps suspended the 5 mile run for over 6 months at Parris Island. Some mothers son fell out with heat exhaustion. Never mind the climate and physical extremes he would face in combat. Fortunaltey for us he was given an administrative discharge. Failure to complete training.

No one is for cutting off body parts, shooting bamboo shoots up finger nails, or runing drill motors into body parts. But some amount of stress and deprivement has to be allowed to break their spirit and make them fearful.

 

Do you believe that underwear on the head serves any legitimate purpose? Deafening music for days on end is torture - try it. Lack of sleep will induce psychosis - do psychotic prisoners give more reliable information?

Resorting to torture shows weakness. If the most powerful country in the world can't manage to interrogate prisoners without resorting to torture, how can we possibly criticize anyone else without gross hypocrisy? Then, too, there is the Christian aspect - how we treat the least of men is how we will be considered to have treated Christ himself.

Why not cut off body parts? Why not bamboo shoots? Why stop at near drowning, electric shocks, lightsticks up the bum and severe beatings?

 

Daisy

First, you are correct the underwear stuff is degrading - the soldiers responsible for that are doing time in Leavenworth . . . Yet, you blame the USA for that?

You are confusing two different things. One you are confusing other powers being allowed to use those methods to interrogate prisoners with the USA doing those things . . . Should I call you a murderer just because you read about one in the paper? That is guilt by association.

Second you are confusing the USA with being responsible for the freedom of the Iraqis . . . The Iraqis are responsible for their freedom . . . We are there to fight a war on terror that was targeting us - the USA. There has been more than enough time for the Iraqis to train and become independent and let the Americans go home (that is what the terrorists and the Iraqis say they want - but, their actions speak louder).

 

PS with few exceptions (confinement being the most obvious) they are treated about the same as the USA treats our soldiers . . . OK . . . they undergo stress. Make me cry - don't think so.

Everyone has recieved better treatment than the terrorists have treated Americans - both in NYC and in Iraq.

Whine, cry, and snivel about how they tortured and beheaded Americans. Murdered women and children.

 

Because we are not muslim . . . if that is not obvious . . . you do not understand their way of life.

I really wonder if you understand our way of life. You continue to try to encite others to behave like muslim terrorists. For what purpose? Do you really want the USA to murder, rape, burn, and torture 100 million muslim extremists and their supporters?

Your muslim method would stop their terrorist for a little while - but, it would ruin our way of life.

 

El_Guero, I was replying to Revmitchell who saw nothing wrong with underwear on the head.

Since the same acts occured at different locations, it could be the soldiers didn't think it up themselves and they could be scapegoats.

The USA has done those things. Did you read Morales' torture memo which approved of severe pain up to the point of major organ failure? Did you read Gen. Taguba report?

It's particularly interesting that you seem to make all Moslems guilty by association whether they have any actual association to the terrorists, but excuse the US government which was in charge and is currently seeking changes to the War Crimes Act so as to further insulate itself from responsibility.

You've got to be kidding...We took the terror to them. We destroyed the civil structure, bombed the cities, allowed terrorists and common brigands to ride roughshod over the poplace, opened the path to civil war - and you want to claim that during this devastation the Iraqis should "train and become independent". Sure, they used to be oppressed by an evil dictator, but they had jobs, water, electricity (air conditioning!), healthcare, schools, houses. Now any fool with a gun can kidnap, rape and pillage. The police recruits are targeted and often killed by insurgents and terrorists who are better armed yet you want to dump responsibility on them.

Confinement without charges, for years on end away with no contact with family and friends (not knowing if the parents, the wife, the little ones back home are even alive) - that's huge.

Not everyone.

We've also killed and maimed women and children on a far grander scale. Which is worse, being beheaded or burnt alive by an incendiary bomb?

Revmitchel is in favor of torture. I am against it. He claims that near drowning, electric shocks, lightsticks up the bum and severe beatings are fine but cutting off body parts and bamboo shoots are over the line. I don't see the basis of his line. Torture is no more the Moslem way of life than it is ours, yet both sides do and justify it to themselves.

We are killing, raping, burning and torturing civilians. There were only 32 million people (including Christians and Jews) in Iraq before we invaded. The great majority were not extremists, then.

It is not my method, it is not the "muslim method", it would not stop terrorism for a moment and yes, it is ruining our way of life.

 

Daisy in your passionate disagreement of my statement you have attributed words to me I never said. If you are going to quote me you need to do so "exactly" like I said it and not quote me in a way that suits your liberal agenda. This is just one more time that you have twisted what I have said.
what you should do is retract your statement made about me admitting I never said: 1.) I am in favor of torture. 2.) He claims that near drowning, electric shocks, lightsticks up the bum and severe beatings are fine.

If something is said that drive you nuts then maybe you should sit back, take a deep breath, reread the post, take some time to think about it, maybe throw some logical reasoning behind your post and then go for it. Post away.

I disagree with you on what is torture. Underwear on the head is silly, even rediculous, and even humiliating but not torture. College kids do it to each other. Are they comitting torture? I have been deprived of sleep many times in my life for various reasons. Mostly to get work done. This is not torture. These items are not worth destroying a persons life and career.

As far as the other claims you made of me. You need to get your facts and quotes striaght.

I'm not sure who claimed that torture is the muslim way of life but it certainly is the terrorist way of life. And these terrorists are muslim acting on what their Koran says in its correct context.

 

When I quote you, I do it exactly and place quotation marks or quote boxes around them. When I paraphrase, I use my words to re-express what I understood you to say and there will be no quote thingies.

College kids rape and kill each other, too. What's your point?

Were you forceably deprived of all sleep for more than 96 hours until you became psychotic? If not, then your comparison lacks merit.

You need to learn the difference between quoting and paraphrasing. If I have misattributed your position, then I appologize, but you seem to be claiming that what has been declared torture is not torture solely because it is we who do it.

The Koran says many different things which are obviously subject to interpretation. What does the Koran say about torture and what is the context? How does it compare with our own Old Testament (from which it draws heavily)? I doubt the great majority of Moslems subscribes to torture or murder. Stop listening to the hate-mongers. Stop being one.

 

Very sad daisy.

 

Yes, it is sad when someone condones torture and indiscriminately condemns an entire people as murderous zealots.:tear:

 

And if hate mongering is truly as you define it then you cannot point out my disagreement with islam and muslims without being a hate monger your self.

 

How have I defined it?

I can certainly "point out" not your disagreement but your condemnation of an entire people regardless of who they are as individuals, ie indiscriminately, without being a hate-monger myself.

 

Your characterizations are convenient but fall short of reality.

I did not claim this as you said. Nor did you present it in a way that presents it as a paraphrase. You said I made a "claim" that I did not make. As a result you have lied about what I have said and mischaracterized my position in a way that is untrue and slanderous. You should be admonished by the mods.

Do I believe that the nation of islam teaches world domination and death to israel and all who oppose them. Absolutely. Do all muslims believe this. No, but they are a minorty.

If pointing that out is hate mongering and condemnation then so is your view of the President. For your language of him has been just as harsh and as usual accusitory in a way that cannot be proven. You cannot prove that he lied. It is an assumption that suits your lib agenda and desire for power. By your definition you rhetoric of the President is hate mongering.

And dont bother pming me

 

There is a difference between being mistaken and deliberately lying. I have already said I was sorry if I had misunderstood.

You say, "The ones complaining of these tools are the same mamby pamby..." and "But some amount of stress and deprivement has to be allowed to break their spirit and make them fearful". Near drowning (waterboarding), electric shocks, lightsticks up the bum and severe beatings are the "stresses" applied by our interogators. You seem to be saying that some amount of torture is fine by you - providing it is not called "torture". If I have mistaken your point, please clarify.

There is no "nation" of Islam; many nations and cultures are Islamic. How do the Islamic theocrats bent on Islamizing the world differ from Christian theocrats bent on Christianizing the world by force?

What makes you think that they are a minority? Seriously, please explain your reasoning with actual evidence. Feel free to start a new thread on the topic.

Did I claim he wanted to commit genocide or take over the world? I don't think so.

Such as? You think that saying someone lied is as harsh as saying everyone of "them" wants to murder and torture all of us? I don't think so.

There is abundant evidence that he has, but it's difficult to prove because there exists the possiblity that he is such a puppet that he'll say anything without considering the truth of the statement. A complete disregard for the veracity of a statement isn't exactly a lie - in most ways, it is worse.

Please provide my exact words where I defined "hate-mongering" or stop saying that I have defined it.

I wasn't going to, but if the possibility scares you so much, use the "ignore" feature. I've only pmed you in the past so as not to publicly embarrass you or to reassure you that any remarks were not aimed at you personally - since you bring it up.

 

When you say that I claimed something that I did not in fact claim but was very specific about the issues I do not consider torture then you have lied.

You added in the elec. shock and the others. I was speaking to the underwear and the other things I listed and nothing more.

I did not claim the things you said I have claimed. the evidence is in the post. You have lied.