1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Liberals are the true heirs of the Nazi spirit

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by carpro, Feb 19, 2017.

  1. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    25,823
    Likes Received:
    1,167
    Faith:
    Baptist
    http://www.spectator.co.uk/2009/02/liberals-are-the-true-heirs-of-the-nazi-spirit/

    Liberals are the true heirs of the Nazi spirit

    What Goldberg very effectively does is to remove from the charge sheet the one possible reason any thinking person could have for not wanting to be right-wing: viz, that being on the right automatically makes you a closet fascist/Nazi scumbag. By accumulating a mass of historical evidence so extensive it borders on the wearisome, Goldberg comprehensively demonstrates that both Nazism and fascism were phenomena of the Left, not of the Right.


    The book, a New York Times No. 1 bestseller has, needless to say, enraged lefties (‘liberals’ as they’re more usually known in the States) everywhere. ‘In the first week I had half a dozen emails from total strangers saying, “How dare you accuse us caring liberals of being fascists!” and then going on to say what a shame it was that my family hadn’t been sorted out once and for all a few years back in the concentration camps,’ he says.


    Nazism and fascism, it turned out, were closer kindred spirits of Soviet communism than he could ever have imagined. The first expressed itself through ideas about racial purity and Jew-hatred, the second with ideas about the primacy of the nation, but in most other respects they were all remarkably similar: seizing the means of production; empowering the masses; rule by experts; the elevation of youth and brute emotion over wisdom, tradition and intellect; the submission of the individual to the will of the state. As Goldberg wryly puts it, ‘The Nazis were not big on property rights and tax cuts.’


    Goldberg points out that it was liberals — not conservatives — who were the biggest advocates of eugenics; that America’s most racist (and fascistic) president was the arch-liberal Woodrow Wilson; and that during the supposedly wondrous New Deal of the beloved liberal president FDR, an immigrant dry-cleaner could have his door kicked in and be imprisoned for cleaning suits for five cents less than the agreed government minimum, while Nuremberg-style rallies — prompting a visiting British Independent Labour MP to complain it all felt far too much like Nazi Germany — were staged in New York.

    Goldberg’s purpose is not to argue that liberals are bad people, still less that they’re all closet fascists. But he does want them to realise that people in glass houses are scarcely in the ideal position to throw stones. ‘I’m not a big believer in guilt by association. But their lack of self-awareness about the demons in their own midst is really astounding.’

    But then, he argues, the problem with liberals is that they’ve always been so convinced of their moral righteousness that they never feel the need to analyse their position too deeply.
     
    • Winner Winner x 4
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Rolfe

    Rolfe Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 17, 2014
    Messages:
    6,898
    Likes Received:
    638
    Faith:
    Baptist
  3. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    25,823
    Likes Received:
    1,167
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Balance for the Trump haters.
     
  4. Use of Time

    Use of Time Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2014
    Messages:
    4,705
    Likes Received:
    368
    Faith:
    Baptist
    He still at it guys. :Roflmao Some people never learn.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. FollowTheWay

    FollowTheWay Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2013
    Messages:
    5,000
    Likes Received:
    210
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Actually, I don't think this is an especially relevant question. Would anyone here really argue that there was a significant difference between Lenin and Hitler? Lenin is viewed by Marxist-Leninists as a champion of socialism and the working class, while critics on both the left and right see him as the founder of a totalitarian dictatorship responsible for mass human rights abuses. But generally speaking Lenin represents the extreme left (Communism) while Hitler represents the extreme right (Fascism). It's obvious to me that extremists at either end of the political spectrum are the enemies of freedom and democracy.

    So the question for me is who today represents such a threat to freedom. I believe that president Trump represents such a threat.

    In an interview for Sunday’s “Meet the Press” with Chuck Todd, McCain was asked about Trump’s Friday tweet that the press is the “enemy of the American people.”

    The Arizona senator warned that a free press is “vital” in order to “preserve democracy as we know it.”

    “And without it, I am afraid that we would lose so much of our individual liberties over time. That’s how dictators get started,” McCain said, clarifying he was not calling Trump a dictator but warning that dictators start by “suppressing free press” and “we need to learn the lessons of history.”

    http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-pre...versarial-media-i-hate-the-press-880632387696
     
  6. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    52,030
    Likes Received:
    3,657
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Hitler was a socialist. There was nothing "right" about him.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  7. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    24,988
    Likes Received:
    2,268
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Hitler went after the Communists first. Then he went after the Social Democrats (socialist-leftists). Then he went after the Democratic Party (center-left), then the Catholic Center Party. Finally the German Nationalist Party (right). So, if there was nothing "right" about him, why did he leave the right wing parties for last?

    The Nationalist Social Germans Workers Party Nazi was, on many issues, a right wing party.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  8. 777

    777 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2006
    Messages:
    3,108
    Likes Received:
    1,215
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Why did Hitler attack the left so hard? That's where all the Jews were.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2000
    Messages:
    15,371
    Likes Received:
    2,405
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Me, on a personal level I use the anarchy -> totalitarian (Zero percent government to One Hundred percent) spectrum. Left -> Right many times is meaningless.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Messages:
    5,821
    Likes Received:
    798
    Hmmm. I think this is wrong. Left right is not meaningless. It's actually a description of biblical vs. non-biblical government. IMO, anarchy vs. totalitarianism is another gage entirely that doesn't really touch the issue of biblical governing principles.
     
  11. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Messages:
    5,821
    Likes Received:
    798
    What do you mean, "went after"? Hitler killed a lot of people, conserves liberals and in between. That was nothing to do with his political leanings.
     
  12. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2000
    Messages:
    15,371
    Likes Received:
    2,405
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Biblical v. non-Biblical is yet a third gage. Which does have meaning. And it does not link Biblical positions to popular usages. A->T allows totalitarians (Hitler, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, et al.) to be lumped together. While many, who would be considered on the right in America, actually skew towards the Anarchy side.
     
  13. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Messages:
    5,821
    Likes Received:
    798
    Without saying I know this is wrong, I'll disagree and make the case. For your consideration: Biblical principles laid out in Romans 13 and also other principles in the Mosaic law were used by our founders to create our government. We're not like Israel per se, but use many moral biblical principles. Therefore, to conserve is to go back to those founding principles. This is what the right is all about.

    Concepts like nationalism, patriotism protection of life and liberty, protection of marriage are all on the right side of politics. Also things like law enforcement, the punishing of evil and protection of the innocent. Also things like national security. All of this is representative of the right.

    Representative of the left is open borders, distortion of marriage, undermine of the police, undermine of the military, the favoring of criminals over victims, the dehumanizing of the unborn, globalism (one world government), etc.

    I think only left and right describes and compares these issues, not merely anarchy vs. totalitarianism.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2000
    Messages:
    15,371
    Likes Received:
    2,405
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I'm comfortable with more than one type of measuring device in my tool box.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Messages:
    5,821
    Likes Received:
    798
    I'm glad. But you misunderstand the terms.
     
  16. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2000
    Messages:
    15,371
    Likes Received:
    2,405
    Faith:
    Baptist
    No, I didn't. L->R is useful for describing many situations. A->T is useful for describing others. Biblical->Non-Biblical is useful for still others. IOW, each spectrum describes different facets.
     
  17. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Messages:
    5,821
    Likes Received:
    798
    of course they do, but not convinced (that right and left are not biblical in essence). you haven't said anything to back this up, nor responded to my arguments for right and left. i get the impression you're not going to.
     
    #17 Calminian, Feb 20, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2017
  18. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2000
    Messages:
    15,371
    Likes Received:
    2,405
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Why? I agree with you that L->R as you described it is valid. However, A->T describes why the totalitarian\authoritarian left are fellow travelers with the totalitarian\authoritarian right.
     
  19. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Messages:
    5,821
    Likes Received:
    798
    Okay, before you said R/L was a different category from biblical.
     
  20. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2000
    Messages:
    15,371
    Likes Received:
    2,405
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I did so because L->R may diverge from Biblical->Non-Biblical over time.
     
Loading...