Lordship Salvation VS Easy Believism

[DaveXR650]

That's exactly right. They aren't saved. And the solution for them is not to start doing more works or act more serious. Justification is by faith and nothing else; not faith plus the Lordship of Christ. But a person who has saving faith will always start following Christ and do works. And we are able to examine ourselves and make sure we really have faith by our works and by our ceasing the practice of sin. Some of the free grace preachers went so far as to say you are not allowed to do this - that your assurance is only found within your faith. And it was a sin to doubt you own salvation. You need balance, and probably a good church and fellow believers to help in this.

What makes it more confusing is that some of the guys who preached extreme free grace doctrine were as far as I know exemplary in their own life and practice. You have to remember that MacArthur's books came out after years of big churches claiming like 17,000 souls won last year, 10,000 baptisms and the church grew by 100. Something was wrong and MacArthur knew it. You should listen to Paul Washers message.

 

[JesusFan]

That's exactly right. They aren't saved. And the solution for them is not to start doing more works or act more serious. Justification is by faith and nothing else; not faith plus the Lordship of Christ. But a person who has saving faith will always start following Christ and do works. And we are able to examine ourselves and make sure we really have faith by our works and by our ceasing the practice of sin. Some of the free grace preachers went so far as to say you are not allowed to do this - that your assurance is only found within your faith. And it was a sin to doubt you own salvation. You need balance, and probably a good church and fellow believers to help in this.

What makes it more confusing is that some of the guys who preached extreme free grace doctrine were as far as I know exemplary in their own life and practice. You have to remember that MacArthur's books came out after years of big churches claiming like 17,000 souls won last year, 10,000 baptisms and the church grew by 100. Something was wrong and MacArthur knew it. You should listen to Paul Washers message.

There is a biblical balance on this issue, as those into free will grace look to their faith for assurance, while those into Lordship can drift over into looking at works for their assurance , but we need to focus on Jesus Christ!

 

[Salty]

Six hour warning

This thread will be closed no sooner than 1230 am EST (Fri) / 930 pm PST (Thr)

 

[Aaron]

Really, then WHY does Paul say, "The times of ignorance therefore God overlooked. But now he commands that all people everywhere should repent" (Acts 17:30), which looks clear to me, that the sinner is here commanded to repent!

Not invited?

 

[DaveXR650]

There is a biblical balance on this issue, as those into free will grace look to their faith for assurance, while those into Lordship can drift over into looking at works for their assurance , but we need to focus on Jesus Christ!

There is assurance in faith itself. But there is also a thing called false assurance. It is proper to look at your life, your conduct, and yes your works to see if you have true faith. Yes, there is a danger we can mix works into our justification. I don't think MacArthur did that, nor the Puritans but some people do.

 

[Aaron]

We need to call the false grace teaching what it is called by Scripture, and that is 'license.'

Salvation is easy. We put as much work into our second birth as we do into our first birth. In both cases, someone else is going through all the pain. I think the Devil has won a round with the Baptists, tricking them into using language that God uses to comfort and succor His children against the accusations and doubts by which the Devil besets them.

John MacArthur, to me, isn't terribly insightful, he just comes down on the right side of the argument. But "Lordship Salvation" is another clumsy term. It implies salvation by works.

Jesus IS Lord. He is Lord of all, the faithful AND the disobedient. He was just as much my Lord before my conversion as He is afterward.

 

[tyndale1946]

There is assurance in faith itself. But there is also a thing called false assurance. It is proper to look at your life, your conduct, and yes your works to see if you have true faith. Yes, there is a danger we can mix works into our justification. I don't think MacArthur did that, nor the Puritans but some people do.

The work of Christ for us is the object of faith; the Spirit's work in us is that which produces this faith: it is out of the former, not of the latter, that our peace and justification come... I don't come because I could... I come because I was brought!... Sought, brought and bought... If that is not my eternal salvation, then my Eternal Salvation is NAUGHT!... Brother Glen

 

[DaveXR650]

You guys are right. Mac's books were written to correct a specific heresy that affected specific people. If the shoe doesn't fit, you don't have to wear it. Just remember how Galatians, the great book on grace verses the law ends. Galatians 6:7-8. "Be not deceived, God is not mocked, whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. He that soweth to the the flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption but he that soweth to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap life everlasting". Galatians 5:19 lists a bunch of the works of the flesh. and in verse 21 says those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Paul is not blowing smoke. That would not be there if you had no warrant to look at that and see if it applies to you. You are definitely sought, brought, and bought. But you are to live the Christian life thereafter. If you aren't you need to question whether you were saved at all. MacArthur's books may have caused some folks consternation, but they were needed for our day - especially in the 80's when it was kind of a thing to be born again. Everyone from the president to the quarterback to the movie star was born again.

 

[Salty]

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