Lordship Salvation

[Trapper]

Question: Must one be a follower of Jesus Christ to be saved, or can responding yes to facts and knowledge about Jesus be enough for salvation?? Those who say you must be willing to follow Jesus in order to truely be saved (ex. John MacArthur, J.I. Packer)believe that simply being serious about a prayer isn't enough. The technical term seems to be Lordship Salvtion for those who believe you must follow Jesus in order to be saved. What do you think???

Trapper

 

[DocCas]

Jesus Christ is Lord, no matter what we do. Saying that, in order to be saved, we must first totally surrender to Christ is the ultimate Arminianism. However, I firmly believe that the truly born again will follow the Lordship of Christ, albeit imperfectly.

 

[donnA]

If we don't live with Jesus as our Lord, are we realy christian? IMHO, the answer is no.

 

[Lorelei]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Trapper:
Question: Must one be a follower of Jesus Christ to be saved, or can responding yes to facts and knowledge about Jesus be enough for salvation?? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

James 2:19 "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble"

Knowing the facts and having knowledge are not enough. It has to be a heart belief, one that does have more commitment to it then just "that it is true"

Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."

I am sure someone else can explain better then I can "how" that works and how the two are different.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Trapper:
simply being serious about a prayer isn't enough<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

2 Corinthians 5:17 "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new"

I think it would depend on what you were "Serious" about. You have to be serious about the "whole" gospel message. If you were serious and believed with your whole heart, then you will want to follow Jesus. I heard it explained this way (and have noticed this to be true in my life). When you become saved you still get to do what you want to, but your want to's change. You don't do good works to get saved, you do them because you praise God for saving you. You now want to please God. Sure, you may not always be successful, you will still wrestle with your old desires. It isn't something that happens over night, but the closer you walk to Jesus and continue to follow Him, the more you try to please Him. Not because you have to, but just because you want to.


~Lorelei

 

[EPH 1:4]

Most IFB preachers will say "Accept Jesus with your heart now and you will be saved, you do not have to make Him your Lord to be saved." Most people will repeat a prayer if they believe this is all they have to do to go to heaven, it's a numbers game with most IFBer's.

 

[preacher]

If Jesus is not LORD of you life, then He could'nt be the Saviour of your life

 

[Chet]

For an increadible book dealing with this subject I would recommend: So Great Salvation by Charles C Ryrie

This is a subject that has always kept my wife Amy and I on an intense discussion.

When we preach about Salvation, we always hear and use the phrase, "You need to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior". But I disagree. I believe as Thomas Cassidy said, Jesus is Lord no matter what we believe. He is Lord, but the question is do we make Him Lord over all areas of our life when we are at a place to make Him our savior. I believe the Scripture teaches that we must accept him as Savior not necessarily Lord. Do we also accept Him as the Messiah King of the Jews? Trapper, I will say here publicly that I do disagree greatly with John MacArthur on his thesis, “The Gospel according to Jesus”.


I have some notes on this subject I would like to share. I am interested to see how this topic goes.

1 Cor 12:3
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth
Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy
Ghost.
KJV

[ September 25, 2001: Message edited by: Chet ]

 

[Chris Temple]

I do believe that Christ must be Lord of the believer for him to be saved. As someone quoted Romans 10:9 "that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." And Jesus said in Matt 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 "Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’
23 "And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’"

The problem comes in with the idea that we must make Him Lord . Jesus IS LORD and no man makes Him such. Jesus is the one who saves by grace, and the true believer, the elect of God, acknowledges Him as Lord of lords and King of kings. If anyone does not, that is the surest sign of false profession.

 

[DocCas]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris Temple:
I do believe that Christ must be Lord of the believer for him to be saved. As someone quoted Romans 10:9 "that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Chris, I see two problems with your position. The first is that by "making Christ Lord of your life" you have done something to merit salvation. Jesus is Lord no matter what I do. And, just as an aside, nobody is perfect in his following of the Lord, nobody! So, we then would have to start drawing lines. Just how much do I have to make Jesus Lord of my life to be saved? Just this much, or just a little more? NO! He is already Lord! My responsibility after he saves me is to follow! Prior to His regenerating grace I cannot follow.

Secondly, Romans 10:9 seems to me to be a statement of the deity of Christ and not His "Lordship." It is saying that you must accept (by grace) that Jesus is Lord (Jehovah, God in the flesh) to be saved. You cannot be saved by a Jesus who is not Jehovah, for you would have "another Christ" and "another Lord."

 

[Pastor Steve]

I've a real fear that placing the condition on salvation concerning the Lordship of Christ is adding to the gospel and in fact another (of a different type)Gospel which is not another (of the same type)as is mentioned in Galatians 1:6&7. Anything we add to faith involves good works. I am convinced that the Lordship of Christ is our life is a consequence of the new birth. It is the result of the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit.

As far as confessing Jesus as Lord as seen in Romans 10, this is a statement affirming His deity. Not his lordship. It is interesting to note that the singular name Jesus is used only 3 times in the Epistles. All other times it includes the name Christ or Lord with it. Sometimes both. This is a statement concerning His deity.

How can we require an unregenerate person to give the Lord Jesus absolute soveriegnty in their life? The only thing that an unsaved person is able to do is to cry out to God for salvation. Once a person is born again they have that ability to allow the Lord Jesus control of their lives. Why else would Paul beg the believer to submit themself as a living sacrifice (Romans 12:1). If you need to make Jesus Lord for salvation, that would already have been done and so Romans 12:1 should not apply to the believer. The issue is not whether or not Jesus Christ should be absolute soveriegn of our lives but what hoops we need to jump through before we can be "truly" born again.

Your servant in Christ,
Pastor Steve

 

[Chris Temple]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Thomas Cassidy:
[QB]Chris, I see two problems with your position. The first is that by "making Christ Lord of your life" you have done something to merit salvation. [QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you misread my post; I clearly stated that one cannot make Christ Lord.

How much should one follow Christ?

Mark 12:30 "‘And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ This is the first commandment."

 

[DocCas]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris Temple:
I think you misread my post; I clearly stated that one cannot make Christ Lord.

How much should one follow Christ?

Mark 12:30 "‘And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ This is the first commandment." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I read the last paragraph too, but it seemed to contradict your statement in the first paragraph. Lordship is something that flows from salvation and not the cause of it.

And the verse is for the saved, not those trying to be saved.

 

[Dr. Bob]

There are a whole litany of doctrines about which a person may be totally ignorant or lacking understanding, and they still are saved by God's Grace.

But understanding about Jesus, God's Son, and His atonement on Calvary MUST be prerequisite to genuine conversion. In that way, the term Savior and Lord may be interchangeable. We see Him as Lord of the world and life and Savior in one view.

The idea of Lordship Salvation I think is a kneejerk reaction to the easy-believism of the "repeat-a-prayer-without-even-understanding-what-you-are-doing" that has become so commonplace in the pseudo-ifb soul winning movement.

 

[Chris Temple]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Thomas Cassidy:
I read the last paragraph too, but it seemed to contradict your statement in the first paragraph. Lordship is something that flows from salvation and not the cause of it.

And the verse is for the saved, not those trying to be saved.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know that and that's my point. I think we are saying the same thing in different ways. Lordship salvation is proof of salvation; the one who does not have Christ as Lord has not truly believed.

 

[S. Jensen]

Doesn't Lordship mean following Christ as opposed to yourself? Repent means to turn from sin (self) and turn to Christ. This is not just seeing and acknowledging sin, but doing what is right in Christs eyes. It is more than just feeling sorry for the sin.

Unless you repent you shall perish.

So does repent equal discipleship (following Christ) which equals Lordship????


Steve