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Love this verse about understanding the Bible and why different versions .
- Thread starter Rocco
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Jesus is Lord
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They read from the book, from the law of God, translating (Footnote: "explaining") to give the sense so that they understood the reading. Nehemiah 8:8
Istherenotacause
New Member
I love the way the Bible tells it in context:
Nehemiah 8:1 And all the people gathered themselves together as one man into the street that was before the water gate; and they spake unto Ezra the scribe to bring the book of the law of Moses, which the LORD had commanded to Israel.
2 And Ezra the priest brought the law before the congregation both of men and women, and all that could hear with understanding, upon the first day of the seventh month.
3 And he read therein before the street that was before the water gate from the morning until midday, before the men and the women, and those that could understand; and the ears of all the people were attentive unto the book of the law.
4 And Ezra the scribe stood upon a pulpit of wood, which they had made for the purpose; and beside him stood Mattithiah, and Shema, and Anaiah, and Urijah, and Hilkiah, and Maaseiah, on his right hand; and on his left hand, Pedaiah, and Mishael, and Malchiah, and Hashum, and Hashbadana, Zechariah, and Meshullam.
5 And Ezra opened the book in the sight of all the people; (for he was above all the people and when he opened it, all the people stood up:
6 And Ezra blessed the LORD, the great God. And all the people answered, Amen, Amen, with lifting up their hands: and they bowed their heads, and worshipped the LORD with their faces to the ground.
7 Also Jeshua, and Bani, and Sherebiah, Jamin, Akkub, Shabbethai, Hodijah, Maaseiah, Kelita, Azariah, Jozabad, Hanan, Pelaiah, and the Levites, caused the people to understand the law: and the people stood in their place.
8 So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.
Seems they gave the "sense" in which the Law was meant "and caused them to understand the reading" and didn't "translate" the Law into another language.
"Distinctly" means they expounded on the Law to give the entire sense so there would be no misunderstanding the intent. Oh, BTW, they sounded the "trumpet" giving a "distinction" in the sound.
Also we see in verse 1 that they were gathered together as one man, something you don't find much of today. It has something to do with unity wouldn't you say?
Ezra read the "Book of the Law". "Also Jeshua, and Bani, and Sherebiah, Jamin, Akkub, Shabbethai, Hodijah, Maaseiah, Kelita, Azariah, Jozabad, Hanan, Pelaiah, and the Levites", these could possibly represent different dialects of the languages of the people present, and that would be a far stretch of the imagination, but I don't see anywhere the mention of "other versions" so I would be careful not to use this passage to justify mv's.
CONTEXT! (The mv killer!)
Nehemiah 8:1 And all the people gathered themselves together as one man into the street that was before the water gate; and they spake unto Ezra the scribe to bring the book of the law of Moses, which the LORD had commanded to Israel.
2 And Ezra the priest brought the law before the congregation both of men and women, and all that could hear with understanding, upon the first day of the seventh month.
3 And he read therein before the street that was before the water gate from the morning until midday, before the men and the women, and those that could understand; and the ears of all the people were attentive unto the book of the law.
4 And Ezra the scribe stood upon a pulpit of wood, which they had made for the purpose; and beside him stood Mattithiah, and Shema, and Anaiah, and Urijah, and Hilkiah, and Maaseiah, on his right hand; and on his left hand, Pedaiah, and Mishael, and Malchiah, and Hashum, and Hashbadana, Zechariah, and Meshullam.
5 And Ezra opened the book in the sight of all the people; (for he was above all the people
and when he opened it, all the people stood up:6 And Ezra blessed the LORD, the great God. And all the people answered, Amen, Amen, with lifting up their hands: and they bowed their heads, and worshipped the LORD with their faces to the ground.
7 Also Jeshua, and Bani, and Sherebiah, Jamin, Akkub, Shabbethai, Hodijah, Maaseiah, Kelita, Azariah, Jozabad, Hanan, Pelaiah, and the Levites, caused the people to understand the law: and the people stood in their place.
8 So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.
Seems they gave the "sense" in which the Law was meant "and caused them to understand the reading" and didn't "translate" the Law into another language.
"Distinctly" means they expounded on the Law to give the entire sense so there would be no misunderstanding the intent. Oh, BTW, they sounded the "trumpet" giving a "distinction" in the sound.
Also we see in verse 1 that they were gathered together as one man, something you don't find much of today. It has something to do with unity wouldn't you say?
Ezra read the "Book of the Law". "Also Jeshua, and Bani, and Sherebiah, Jamin, Akkub, Shabbethai, Hodijah, Maaseiah, Kelita, Azariah, Jozabad, Hanan, Pelaiah, and the Levites", these could possibly represent different dialects of the languages of the people present, and that would be a far stretch of the imagination, but I don't see anywhere the mention of "other versions" so I would be careful not to use this passage to justify mv's.
CONTEXT! (The mv killer!)
Actually, Nehemiah was holding meeting at the First Baptist Church of Jerusalem, and he was reading the KJV to the congregation in Elizabethan English (old Scofield Edition by the way), and at the end, they played 22 verses of "Just as I am..."
--time warp and all that courtesy of the KJVO-MV debate teams!
Istherenotacause
New Member
Very probably so. Either way, it is not a very good example to justify mv's. It was the high priest rerading the book of the Law of Moses and the cause had been accomplishedto bring the people to unity in rebuilding the wall. This was a "formal" service by which we characterize our services this day, a time of "celebration" if I may say w/o being accused of being contemporary.
I wouldn't be too sure those present had completely set aside Hebrew as though Aramaic was the main language. Though Aramaic had become the common language due to the attack on the Hebrew and the effort to stamp it out, many still kept the "ancient" Hebrew language intact and it was readily understood, even though that was only among the Levites and priests. The Word of God had been preserved in the Hebrew.
Nehemiah 8 is good passage regarding the time and situation that had arisen and the rebuilding of the wall of protection for the rebuilding of that holy city Jerusalem.
If one wants to use this verse in regards to justification of mv's, then all one has to do is examine the disunity that seems to prevail amongst the "brethren" this day to refute the idea.
The KJB has been the standard for worship and practice for many years and the induction of mv's has done nothing but cause further division. (Guess you don't hear too many KJB people say that? I know the mv's use that to "put down" KJVO's). Besides, not much discrepency in the first 5 books of the Bible comparatively from the KJB and the mv's, it's the NT where the "big" discrepencies come in. Even the discrepencies between the mv's with one another apart from the KJB is enough to confuse a termite in a yo-yo.
It never ceases to amaze me how many mv people like to mock the KJVO's though, seems the reason is to further divide the household of God. I would never make a mockerey when the Spirit is dealing with the hearts of those present, I don't care how many verses of "Just As I Am" we sing. Usually the song leader or preacher changes the song to something else to not be redundant.
And KJVO's don't mock the MV's? Right.
And I don't mock 16 verses of "Just As I Am". I deplore it as psychological manipulation and the modern innovation of "altar calls".
It never ceases to amaze me that folks who decry modern versions as "evil" turn around and embrace modern psychological techniques that are far more "evil". Hmmmm.
Istherenotacause
New Member
And KJVO's don't mock the MV's? Right.
And I don't mock 16 verses of "Just As I Am". I deplore it as psychological manipulation and the modern innovation of "altar calls".
It never ceases to amaze me that folks who decry modern versions as "evil" turn around and embrace modern psychological techniques that are far more "evil". Hmmmm. </font>[/QUOTE]Ah, Yes. The opinion of the man clad in the bowtie overrides it all.
If the heart is to be reached, it first must be done through the mind. I have never seen the "heart" gate mentioned anywhere, but I do find the eargate, the eyegate, etc. those "gates" which must be passed before ever gaining access to the heart of a man.
If it'll satisfy the mv's. we'll strike "Just As I Am' from the song books and declare Charlotte Elliot a heretic for writing such an outlandish song with the touch of God on it and start singing "bang your head" music to entertain the flesh.
I might wear a bowtie, brother, but you have serious issues that affect thinking skills above the bowtie level. I do counseling at the wife's clinic and would be happy to work you in.
I only charge half-price for BB members!
Of course, I use GOD'S WORD in my counseling, from the New American Standard BIBLE, not some "version".
I only charge half-price for BB members!
Of course, I use GOD'S WORD in my counseling, from the New American Standard BIBLE, not some "version".
Istherenotacause
New Member
I wonder what Pee-Wee Herman has to say about that! Yall aren't related are you? Silly me! Of course you two are, the bowtie is the dead giveaway!Originally posted by Dr. Bob Griffin:
I might wear a bowtie, brother, but you have serious issues that affect thinking skills above the bowtie level. I do counseling at the wife's clinic and would be happy to work you in.
I only charge half-price for BB members!
Of course, I use GOD'S WORD in my counseling, from the New American Standard BIBLE, not some "version".
What was wrong with the asv that it had to be "revised" to the "new" asv?
Your problem is from the bowtie-down, there's much more useful material there than up!
Have you ever seen in the Bible that souls should be saved by the hard sell techniques of the preacher?
Many people are riding the pews straight to hell because someone convinced them to "walk that aisle." "...won't you come.... won't you come now... I know God is dealing with someone... Charlie sing that 4th verse again..."
You know, my eight year old engages in this kind of ridiculous overexaggeration in his efforts to try to avoid truth... then again he is 8 so hopefully we can discipline him out of it.If it'll satisfy the mv's. we'll strike "Just As I Am' from the song books and declare Charlotte Elliot a heretic for writing such an outlandish song with the touch of God on it and start singing "bang your head" music to entertain the flesh.
Istherenotacause
New Member
Have you ever seen in the Bible that souls should be saved by the hard sell techniques of the preacher?
Many people are riding the pews straight to hell because someone convinced them to "walk that aisle." "...won't you come.... won't you come now... I know God is dealing with someone... Charlie sing that 4th verse again..."
You know, my eight year old engages in this kind of ridiculous overexaggeration in his efforts to try to avoid truth... then again he is 8 so hopefully we can discipline him out of it. </font>[/QUOTE]I know deep down Scott wants to discipline me, but since when has "compelling" them to come in become "hard sell techniques"? Who ever said that's the way I give an invitation? You are typical of the one who classifies everyone that doesn't agree with you into that little "group" you adamantly love to put us all in. I think your statements identify you as judgemental.If it'll satisfy the mv's. we'll strike "Just As I Am' from the song books and declare Charlotte Elliot a heretic for writing such an outlandish song with the touch of God on it and start singing "bang your head" music to entertain the flesh.
I do believe in giving some one AMPLE opportunity to come to Jesus, but we don't sign cards, we don't repeat after me, we DO invite!
Istherenotacause
New Member
The Latin Vulgate was the standard for worship and practice for many years (about 1,000 years actually) and the induction of mv's (in the Vulgar tongues rather than Holy, God honoring Latin) did nothing but cause further division... Thank God!!!! </font>[/QUOTE]Only problem though scootj, when the Word was placed in the "vulgar" languages, we went from the Dark Ages into the Light of the Great Awakening. Since the induction of the "new" versions the world is sliding ever so speedily into apostacy; a darkness much worse!
We are not divided over the Bible, but the division is necessary from the apsotate. We know we have the Word of God, so why are yall still guessing? "I like the way the ____ says it best" "Oh, I like that one too, but have you read it in the ____?" "You know, the KJV should have said it like this, "____ __ _____ ________ __ __"
"What does your version say?" "You know, the Greek says,_____"
Guess what? The Word of God says it just like God said it.
Guess what the KJV translators said in 1604, when they started work on the KJV:
"I like the way the ____ says it best" "Oh, I like that one too, but have you read it in the ____?" "You know, the Geneva should have said it like this, "____ __ _____ ________ __ __"
"What does your version say?" "You know, the Greek says,_____"
Silly apostates.
No we didn't. There was over 100 years between the KJV and the Great Awakening and much more time from earlier versions. State sponsored/controlled/enforced religion remained the rule for almost 200 years after the KJV was made.
This is not a case of cause and effect. I could likewise say that since the "induction" of KJVOnlyism the world is sliding ever so speedily into biblical ignorance and apostacy; a darkness much worse.
You certainly could not disprove this statement. KJVOnlyism was formulized in the 1940's or 1950's and on a moral level western civilization has been on the decline ever since.
Truth is that KJVOnlyism represents the falling away from sound Bible based doctrine. You have set up an artificial, man-made, divisive doctrine found nowhere in scripture then sanctimoniously declare that you will separate from apostates who dare to disagree with you.
You should either cite biblical evidence for KJVOnlyism or apologize for insenuating that others are apostate for not accepting it as true.
At any point they cease to be according to the biblical example of God drawing men unto Himself and a man attempting to perform the work of God. Some form of invitation is necessary, either personal or group. But the power is in the preaching of the Word of God and the Holy Spirit to move sinner's to repent- not in 20, 30, or 45 minutes of hymn singing in the background of a preacher's pleading and declaring what he KNOWS about what the Spirit is doing with someone in the audience. Sometimes you are forced to wonder if part of it isn't simply vanity on the part of the preacher... a disbelief that he could preach such a fine message without anyone "walking that aisle."
I don't know because if you actually read my post you will see that I didn't. I was simply making a response in the vein of the conversation. Since I have never seen you preach, there is no way for me to know what you do.
Since your premise is false, your conclusion is also not proven... I have no need to group you. You adequately accomplish that all on your own.
This short exchange between us is a demonstration that you are willing to distort what someone else says or writes for your own purposes. In this case, so you could pretend that I am unfairly classifying and judging you. Unworthily playing the victim has always seemed to be a favorite tactic of KJVO's. It must make them feel justified as the persecuted defender's of all that is good and true.
I think you statements identify you as disassociated with and uninclined to the truth on this subject.
So do we. I didn't say that you shouldn't. Once again, you have read your own biases between the lines of what I actually wrote.
I actually don't prefer the Finneyistic type of altar calls. I believe that it emphasizes man's efforts and not God's glory. A simply opportunity is more than sufficient if the Holy Spirit is moving on someone... and it is not necessary to be saved "at that old fashioned altar" anyway. I was but my wife was saved in the pastor's office. One of my kid's was saved in her bedroom, one at VBS, and one in the car on the way to Wed. night church service.
If a pastor is doing his job, the people in the pews would know how to lead someone to Christ outside of church rather than depending on the altar call... once again an activity that often brings glory to the preacher rather than God.
Istherenotacause
New Member
No we didn't. There was over 100 years between the KJV and the Great Awakening and much more time from earlier versions. State sponsored/controlled/enforced religion remained the rule for almost 200 years after the KJV was made.
This is not a case of cause and effect. I could likewise say that since the "induction" of KJVOnlyism the world is sliding ever so speedily into biblical ignorance and apostacy; a darkness much worse.
You certainly could not disprove this statement. KJVOnlyism was formulized in the 1940's or 1950's and on a moral level western civilization has been on the decline ever since.
Truth is that KJVOnlyism represents the falling away from sound Bible based doctrine. You have set up an artificial, man-made, divisive doctrine found nowhere in scripture then sanctimoniously declare that you will separate from apostates who dare to disagree with you.
You should either cite biblical evidence for KJVOnlyism or apologize for insenuating that others are apostate for not accepting it as true. </font>[/QUOTE]Like I said before, you place me in that little group again of KJVO's. I love study helps such as commentaries, even a good word from some one who knows what they're talking about. Not some one who is obsessed with another group to spend their entire breath denigrating what another belives as true, as you consistently have proven overall to be just such an one.
Your last statement has no grounds for substanciation. The world is sliding off into apostacy and you nor anyone else can deny it. New versions aren't the "magic" tool they are put up to be.
Please give your explanation of why we have so many "clearer" translations, but the world is getting farther away from holiness unto the LORD? Be crative and use something other than the fact it is prophesied in scripture. Prophesy fulfilled is accurate unto the time, but that which is yet to be fulfilled has no specific time determined, except that it is in the future.
Istherenotacause
New Member
At any point they cease to be according to the biblical example of God drawing men unto Himself and a man attempting to perform the work of God. Some form of invitation is necessary, either personal or group. But the power is in the preaching of the Word of God and the Holy Spirit to move sinner's to repent- not in 20, 30, or 45 minutes of hymn singing in the background of a preacher's pleading and declaring what he KNOWS about what the Spirit is doing with someone in the audience. Sometimes you are forced to wonder if part of it isn't simply vanity on the part of the preacher... a disbelief that he could preach such a fine message without anyone "walking that aisle."
I don't know because if you actually read my post you will see that I didn't. I was simply making a response in the vein of the conversation. Since I have never seen you preach, there is no way for me to know what you do.
Since your premise is false, your conclusion is also not proven... I have no need to group you. You adequately accomplish that all on your own.
This short exchange between us is a demonstration that you are willing to distort what someone else says or writes for your own purposes. In this case, so you could pretend that I am unfairly classifying and judging you. Unworthily playing the victim has always seemed to be a favorite tactic of KJVO's. It must make them feel justified as the persecuted defender's of all that is good and true.
I think you statements identify you as disassociated with and uninclined to the truth on this subject.
So do we. I didn't say that you shouldn't. Once again, you have read your own biases between the lines of what I actually wrote.
I actually don't prefer the Finneyistic type of altar calls. I believe that it emphasizes man's efforts and not God's glory. A simply opportunity is more than sufficient if the Holy Spirit is moving on someone... and it is not necessary to be saved "at that old fashioned altar" anyway. I was but my wife was saved in the pastor's office. One of my kid's was saved in her bedroom, one at VBS, and one in the car on the way to Wed. night church service.
If a pastor is doing his job, the people in the pews would know how to lead someone to Christ outside of church rather than depending on the altar call... once again an activity that often brings glory to the preacher rather than God. </font>[/QUOTE]I'll be the first to admit some truly posess the ability of discernment, but all too often one boasts his "ability" and uses it for a cloak for maliciousness.
When the man of God is "filled" with the Spirit he posesses that discernment that others are unable to detect, but like I said, there is a vast difference in true discernment and that "put on".
I preached at the rescue mission the other night and I could tell who the message struck by the countenances of those present. I didn't even give an invitation, I asked the pastor to. But you know what? The one man I saw the message effect the most is the one who got saved that night. The portion of the message I specifically dealt with was pointed directly to another individual who I know needed to hear what was said to prevent a "bar from opening up in New Hampshire". That guy suddenly woke up and was wildeyed after the service.
Was it a "spectacular" message? I thought so, God was all over me, but I, nor the pastor saw the need to stretch out the invitation. These guys were there to get a free meal, but out of twenty or so, 4 stuck around and asked for prayer a good 30 minutes after the service, which let out 15 minutes late at 8:15 p.m. and bedtime is 9:00 p.m. Clean-up is mandatory and showers are only permitted until then.
Remember, the watchman on the wall sees more than anyone below his "perch" could possibly see.
I was saved at my mother's house the next day after a service. My daughter and my oldest son both have come into our bedroom in the middle of the night to be led to the Lord.
The altar is to be "built" and the stones laid out in the specific place the Lord declares.
OOOooo! We really put the psycological wrench on that one didn't we?
I believe that too many in BB jump to conclusions, I am probably as guilty of that as anyone, but the case certainly applies here.