Featured Lowell Davey boots John MacArthur

The problem was that to them just 5 point "normal" Calvinism was Hyper!

 

Seems to be two separate issues in view, and as previous threads on this site have shown, LS vs FG and Cal vs non-Cal don't always align.

 

True that, as one side calls other teaching loose living, other says supports legalism!

 

100% Christ is NOT Hyper-Calvinism!... It is called True Sovereign Grace... Pertaining to Eternal Salvation!... You don't go to God, God comes to you!... THE LORD ALWAYS GETS THERE FIRST!... Brother Glen

 

Lordship salvation to me is an issue of semantics but MacArthur's view of the blood of Christ is indeed confusing - to me anyway.

 

There is baptismal regeneration, trusting in one's baptism.

There is prayer regeneration trusting in having said a prayer.

What is being called "Lordship salvation" the real error is trusting in one's confession.

The error is trusting in a work of one's faith rather than in the finished work of Christ.

 

He seems to have changed over time!

 

Resting upon what I said instead of in Christ!

 

What does bbn stand for?

It sounds like it's a man-centered Christian parachurch ministry.

 

Bible Broadcasting Network
John MacArthur Booted off Bible Broadcasting Network

 

Never heard of it. Is it a regional network?
I have heard of the Moody radio network and the Northwestern radio network, but not the Bible Broadcasting Network. Is it a SDA network?

 

its on ROKU

music
prayer
messages
reading books of bible.

 

The problem, as I understand it, is if a Pastor teaches God chooses us "unconditionally" rather than "through or on the basis of faith" it is unacceptable to many Christians. Or Christ died only for the unconditionally chosen elect rather than all mankind, foreclosing the opportunity for salvation to all, it is unacceptable to many Christians. Or God crippling mankind such that they cannot trust in Christ, then condemning them to Hades/Gehenna for their foreordained sins.

All these false doctrines can be dropped if one accepts:

Christ became the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world, all mankind.
God chooses individuals for salvation through or on the basis of crediting their faith as righteousness.
The Fall resulting in mankind having limited spiritual ability, able to understand and respond to spiritual milk but not spiritual solid food (meat).
God causes or allows all that comes to pass.

 

The problem here is that to accept your proposal, I would have to accept false doctrines that the Bible does not affirm.

Instead, I can accept:
1) Christ is the propitiation and means of salvation for all whom the Father has given him.
2) God chose his adopted children from before the foundation of the world, having predestined them unto salvation.
3) The Fall resulted in man's spiritual corruption, thus eliminating his capacity to redeem himself. God must choose to save a person and grant them the faith to believe. Without this action by God, a man cannot be saved.
4) God ordains all things by his providential decree.

We can argue our positions from scripture and seek to sharpen each others walk with God or we can beat each other into senseless accusation. I find the first more profitable than the second.

 

1) First you say my proposal contains false doctrines. Fair enough. Did you say why? Nope
2) The issue is not with "all the Father gives" to Christ, we agree, but where we disagree is that Christ is the means of salvation for all mankind, 1 John 2:2.
3) Adoption is future, not past, Romans 8:23. All given to Christ are predestined to adoption at Christ's second coming, and we have our indwelt Holy Spirit as the pledge for that future event.
4) No verse says anyone is predestined to be saved. What is predestined is God's actions once a person is saved, i.e. conformed to the image of Christ and our future adoption. Romans 8:28-29
5) No one said people redeem themselves. Deflection. God does not instill faith by irresistible faith, but He does allow (or not) people to come to faith. Those He hardens are not allowed.
6) Unless God draws a person, meaning calls the person through the gospel, they cannot be saved.
7) God "providential decree" is not found in scripture. God's desire that all people be saved (according to His redemption plan) is found in scripture. 1 Timothy 2:4

 

Christ became the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world, all mankind.
God chooses individuals for salvation through or on the basis of crediting their faith as righteousness.
The Fall resulting in mankind having limited spiritual ability, able to understand and respond to spiritual milk but not spiritual solid food (meat).
God causes or allows all that comes to pass.

 

Therefore all humanity, universally, is made perfect and holy.

Therefore, human willed faith is the work that God credits as that human beings form of righteousness.
Humans take the credit for building their own faith.

Yet, God said that Adam would surely die. Not limited spiritual ability. Total spiritual inability. Humans, at the fall, would have no capacity to choose redemption. God would need to choose to redeem humans.
Either that choice is on an individual basis or it is a universal choice.

God ordains all things for His glory.

 

Does AustinC really believe Jesus being the means of salvation means He has made everyone perfect? The assertion is obviously just a smoke screen to deflect from actual discussion.

Does God not credit our faith (or not) as righteousness? Of course He does, see Romans 4:4-5 and Romans 4:23-24.

How did Timothy know scripture from infancy if he had no spiritual ability? Again and again, Calvinism is shown to be bogus.
Did anyone say God did not choose to redeem humans? Nope so more deflection and no discussion. Sad

Did anyone say God does not choose individuals for salvation? Nope - so more deflection, more strawman, more smoke screen.

Does scripture say God ordains "all things?" No reference was provided. On the one hand Calvinists say God ordains whatsoever comes to pass, and then says God does not ordain sin. Cognitive dissonance.

Here again are the biblical doctrines Calvinism denies:
Christ became the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world, all mankind.
God chooses individuals for salvation through or on the basis of crediting their faith as righteousness.
The Fall resulting in mankind having limited spiritual ability, able to understand and respond to spiritual milk but not spiritual solid food (meat).
God causes or allows all that comes to pass.