1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Many = All Many times In The Bible

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Rippon, Mar 24, 2008.

Top Posters
Page 1 of 3
  1. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    19,715
    Likes Received:
    585
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The word 'many' occurs a number of times in the Scriptures regarding the cross-work of Christ .

    Many folks here of the non-cal persuasion insist that the word 'all' means all ( i.e. that it means each and every ) . Despite ample evidence to the contrary many maintain that Calvinists twist the Scriptures to say what it does not really declare . Many non-Cals are duped into believing this nonsense in the name of being true 'biblicists' . However , it is they who are responsible for distorting what the Word of God proclaims many times .

    Isaiah 53:11 : ... for many to be counted righteous [ justified -- Rip ]

    Matthew 20:28 : ... to give his life as a ransome for many

    Matthew 26:28 : It [ His blood -- Rip ] is poured out as a sacrifice to forgive the sins of many .

    Mark 10:45 : ... to give his life as a ransom for many .

    Mark 14:24 ... It [ His blood -- Rip ] is poured out as a sacrifice for many .

    Hebrews 2:10 : ... chose to bring many children into glory .

    Hebrews 9:28 : ... to take away the sins of many people .

    Hmm , I count seven times where 'many' is used . In none of those cases does it mean each and every . We know that the Bible does not contradict itself , so what do we do ? Most of the time ) with the exceptions of a Romans 3:23 , for example ) we need to compare Scripture with Scripture . The times where 'all' , 'everyone' and 'world' are used does not signify each and every person head for head who has , is , and will exist on earth . It is not the same as an absolute term .

    The word translated 'many' means numerous , but not all in the absolute sense . 'Many' means some of a group , just as the words 'all' , 'everyone' and 'world' do most of the time in the Bible .

    The purpose of Christ's mission was to save a certain sum of people -- all of the individuals of a group -- the Elect . Did God appoint a Savior without determining who exactly should indeed be saved ? A resounding NO .
     
    #1 Rippon, Mar 24, 2008
  2. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    19,715
    Likes Received:
    585
    Faith:
    Baptist
    What Was Accomplished At The Cross ?

    Hmm , 14 people have been mulling over this particular post . It is worth mediating upon .

    What waas actually achieved , or obtained by the death of Christ ? Snippets follow from the NLTse .

    "With his own blood [he] secured our redemption forever . Christ will purify our consciences from sinful deeds ." ( Hebrews 9:12,14 )

    What was gained ? : Eternal redemption and purified consciences for those for whom He died .

    "When he had cleansed us from our sins , he sat down in the place of honor at the right hand of the majeestic God in heaven ." ( Hebrews 1:3 )

    Spiritual cleansing is given to those for whom Christ died .

    "He personally carried our sins..." ( 1 peter 2:24 )

    Christ carried away our sins on the cross .

    "Yet now he has reconciled you ..." ( Colossians 1:22 )

    Real peace is established between those for whom He died and God Himself .

    "For you were slaughtered , and your blood has ransomed people for God [ out of -- Rip ] every tribe and language and people and nation . And you have caused them to become a kingdom of priests ... " Revelation 5:9,10 -- see also Rev. 14:4 and John 11:51,52 )

    The above is isn't true of every single human being , but it is descriptive of what is in fact true for all for whom Christ died .

    "I give them eternal life." ( John 10:28 )

    Jesus explains that this eternal life is given to "my sheep" in verse 27 . The spiritual life believers have is obtained for them by Christ's death .

    Since the death of Christ really gives redemption , cleansing , purification , a carrying away of sins , reconciliation eternal life and citizenship in the kingdom -- then He must have died ONLY FOR those who do get those things ( and more ! ) ! It's clear that all people do not have those things . So , salvation was designed ( purposed , planned ) by God for certain ones , and not all people .
     
    #2 Rippon, Mar 24, 2008
  3. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    9,838
    Likes Received:
    702
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Charles Spurgeon, 1880:
    What then? Shall we try to put another meaning into the text than that which it fairly bears? I trow not. You must, most of you, be acquainted with the general method in which our older Calvinistic friends deal with this text. "All men," say they, —"that is, some men": as if the Holy Ghost could not have said "some men" if he had meant some men. "All men," say they; "that is, some of all sorts of men": as if the Lord could not have said "all sorts of men" if he had meant that. The Holy Ghost by the apostle has written "all men," and unquestionably he means all men. I know how to get rid of the force of the "alls" according to that critical method which some time ago was very current, but I do not see how it can be applied here with due regard to truth. I was reading just now the exposition of a very able doctor who explains the text so as to explain it away; he applies grammatical gunpowder to it, and explodes it by way of expounding it. I thought when I read his exposition that it would have been a very capital comment upon the text if it had read, "Who will not have all men to be saved, nor come to a knowledge of the truth." Had such been the inspired language every remark of the learned doctor would have been exactly in keeping, but as it happens to say, "Who will have all men to be saved," his observations are more than a little out of place. My love of consistency with my own doctrinal views is not great enough to allow me knowingly to alter a single text of Scripture. I have great respect for orthodoxy, but my reverence for inspiration is far greater. I would sooner a hundred times over appear to be inconsistent with myself than be inconsistent with the word of God. I never thought it to be any very great crime to seem to be inconsistent with myself, for who am I that I should everlastingly be consistent? But I do think it a great crime to be so inconsistent with the word of God that I should want to lop away a bough or even a twig from so much as a single tree of the forest of Scripture. God forbid that I should cut or shape, even in the least degree, any divine expression. So runs the text, and so we must read it, "God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."
     
    #3 Jerome, Mar 24, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 24, 2008
  4. belvedere

    belvedere Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2006
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have wondered about this very same thing, Rippon. Thanks for bringing it up. I'm looking forward to reading/learning from the responses. Hopefully this thread will stay on topic.
     
    #4 belvedere, Mar 25, 2008
  5. donnA

    donnA Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2000
    Messages:
    23,354
    Likes Received:
    0
    Very good post. I made a comment Sunday in class that because they understand an English word think they know automatically what a scripture says, but they almost always tend to go with the most common use of the word in our language, and do not consider other common uses of the word. We used to word duck as an example, more then one meaning, and able to be used more then one way.
     
    #5 donnA, Mar 25, 2008
  6. Martin

    Martin Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,229
    Likes Received:
    0
    Faith:
    Baptist
    ==Amen! Very good post Rippon! :thumbs:
     
    #6 Martin, Mar 25, 2008
  7. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
    Many means quite a large number. If there are 40,000,000,000,000,000 people Christ died for...that is "many" people.

    Since the Bible doesn't contradict, It also says that "few" pass through the narrow gate. If the "elect" are "many"...why are they counted as "few"?
     
    #7 webdog, Mar 25, 2008
  8. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
    The very same thing can be said of the OP.
     
    #8 webdog, Mar 25, 2008
  9. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    5
    "Many" means a lot, but not everybody.

    "Few" means in comparison to the whole population. Most people will not make it to heaven.

    No contradiction.
     
    #9 Amy.G, Mar 25, 2008
  10. skypair

    skypair Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Messages:
    4,657
    Likes Received:
    0
    rip,

    I like the "many" in Dan 12:2. It practically guarantees that there is a rapture of some before there is a resurrection of the OT saints!!

    skypair
     
    #10 skypair, Mar 25, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 25, 2008
  11. Allan

    Allan Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    6,902
    Likes Received:
    5
    Wanna see some good gymnastics?


    The problem comes when we confuse Christ's propitation made for all (1Jn 2:2)and the Redemption of many that is applied by faith in the propitiation (Rom 3:25).

    All that is addressed in the OP deals with those redeemed by the atonement, and I have no problem with any of them but agree whole heartedly. Yet they do not nullify the biblical fact of Universal Atonement but attually attest to it when it is properly understood. Yes, Christ purchased every single person he purposed to Redeem through His sacrifice, but it is also due to His sacrifice for all that many who reject the truth will be damned (2 Thes 2:10-12). If the atonement was not made for them then rejection of the gospel message would have no bearing on their eternal destiny, period. However the scriptures state after their rejection, it was for this cause that God damned them (paraphrase).

    Logical question: How can a person be damned only after their rejection of a gospel (good news) message that can not save them?
     
    #11 Allan, Mar 25, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 25, 2008
  12. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    5
    Good point. As usual. Stop it! :laugh:
     
    #12 Amy.G, Mar 25, 2008
  13. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
    Everybody can also mean many. All of the people alive is many.

    Many is a large number, and if everyone is included, that is a large number.

    I'm looking forward to hearing Allan's question answered :thumbs:
     
    #13 webdog, Mar 25, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 25, 2008
  14. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    5
    Yes. That is true. I guess we should go by the context in which it is used. :)
     
    #14 Amy.G, Mar 25, 2008
  15. JustChristian

    JustChristian New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2007
    Messages:
    3,833
    Likes Received:
    0

    I don't think anyone who doesn't believe in limited atonement argues that ALL men will be saved (universalism). They argue that all have the opportunity to be saved.
     
    #15 JustChristian, Mar 25, 2008
  16. Martin

    Martin Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,229
    Likes Received:
    0
    Faith:
    Baptist
    ==Because they are sinners who deserve damnation. All of us are in that boat but thanks to God's grace His elect will escape through the cross of Christ.
     
    #16 Martin, Mar 25, 2008
  17. Allan

    Allan Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    6,902
    Likes Received:
    5
    No question we all deserve damnation, however you still did not answer my question...

    And I also absolutely agree with the last half as well:
    Amen!!
     
    #17 Allan, Mar 25, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 25, 2008
  18. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2006
    Messages:
    3,602
    Likes Received:
    6
    Scripture

    We all have the same opportunity as the world does. God is no respector of person.

    We all deserve hell , but praise be to God that He provided the world a way out Jesus Christ.

    To me it is arrogant for one man to say with no word but thier own that they are the elect and saying the same hope they have was not given to the world.

    The scripture clearly says that He loved the world that He sent His Son and that He wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

    We will not speak against the word many as we would not speak against all, because it is His word not ours.

    We are to trust in the Lord, not in our understanding or even other mens understanding

    I am not lying, nor is Paul nor is the Holy Sprit speaking through Paul that God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

    Our Faith as a believer should be grounded on the word of God. God had the Holy Bible translated for us that we can see for ourselves what His word say's
     
    #18 psalms109:31, Mar 25, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 25, 2008
  19. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    19,715
    Likes Received:
    585
    Faith:
    Baptist
    All Snips From The NLTse

    The many that I have featured are the very same individuals who are variously known as the sheep of Christ ( John 10:15 ) ; the children of God ( John 11:52 ) ; the children God gave Him ( John 17:11 & Hebrews 2:13 ) ; His chosen ones (Romans 8:33 ) ; those He chose from the beginning ( Romans 11:2 ) ; His church ( Acts 20:28 ) ; and those whose sins he took away ( Hebrews 9:28 ) .

    These particular descriptions are clearly not true of all people , but one group in counterdistinction to everyone else .
     
    #19 Rippon, Mar 26, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 26, 2008
  20. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    19,715
    Likes Received:
    585
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I had mentioned Matthew 20:28 in my OP : For the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve others AND TO GIVE HIS LIFE AS A RANSOM FOR MANY .

    Since Christ really ( actually , in truth ) ransoms there are no maybe's , perhaps , potentials , etc. When slaves were redeemed --were they set free or not ? There is no if in this -- they were set free . Christ redeemed , ransomed -- set free many from eternal condemnation -- not each and every person on the planet head for head . His sacrifice does not redeem or ransom everyone but those that He has chosen from before the foundation of the world .
     
    #20 Rippon, Mar 26, 2008
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 1 of 3
Loading...